1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

ATA rule question.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Barrelbulge(Fl), Mar 18, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,684
    Location:
    West Central Florida
    Does anyone know what the rules was in approx. 1990 to 1994 regarding registered birds and squading? How many shooters had to be on a squad to register birds? Was 5 mandatory back then? Thanks, Bulge.
     
  2. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,988
    I wasn't shooting until 1999 but FWIW I can't imagine there would've been a mandatory number of shooters on a squad? Do you perhaps mean instead a mandatory number of shooters signed up in the EVENT?
     
  3. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,638
    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    1993: Rule III, A - "... To constitute a registered shoot at least five (5) or more persons must compete and complete each event, ... "

    2011: Rule IV, A, 2, c: "c. at least three (3) or more contestants must compete in and complete the same event on the same day of competition."
     
  4. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,684
    Location:
    West Central Florida
    V10, thank you. That was the info I was looking for. Bulge.
     
  5. 100after9

    100after9 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    422
    RE guarding the shoot to be considered for registration is 3 per event you are right V10
     
  6. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,684
    Location:
    West Central Florida
    So, are we coming to the conclusion, to shoot registered birds in 1990 you had to have 5 men on the squad to register the birds? Is this right? Mike.
     
  7. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,638
    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    Mike,

    You just needed 5 shooters to shoot (and complete) the event. They didn't all have to be on the same squad.

    Now you just need 3 shooters, and again, they don't need to be on the same squad.
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    "Hold on folks. The ATA required 5 people on a squad in 1990 and still has the same requirement."

    trap4ever if this were true you would never see a squad with less than 5 shooters on it and I feel pretty sure everyone has seen short squads before. The ATA does have a maximum of 5 shooter on a squad but no minimum. Five shooters is not mandatory.

    Section G Sub Paragraph 3

    3. It is illegal for more than five (5) shooters to be in a squad.

    Section G. SQUADDING, SQUAD LEADER RESPONSIBILITIES AND TARGET OBSERVATION Sub paragraph 1

    c. When there are withdrawals from a squad after the competition has begun and squads scheduled.

    d. When in the opinion of shoot management, the harmony of the shoot may be enhanced by squadding less than five (5) contestants.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    trap4ever case scenario three shooters come to classification and ask for a full squad you give them a squad they come back a short time later and put two positions back on the table.

    It doesn't fill are you going to tell them they can't shoot as they don't have five shooters? If so how long do you think they will continue to bother to shoot at your club. Once again d fits,

    "d. When in the opinion of shoot management, the harmony of the shoot may be enhanced by squadding less than five (5) contestants."

    Next scenario Grandfather his Son and Grandson come in late to sign up for singles you don't have a squad that will accommodate them what should do split them up or give them three positions on the next squad with five positions on it. Well once again d fits.

    That sub paragraph wouldn't be there if it wasn't permissible in the first place.

    You can believe what you want and you can feel however you want but there are no absolutes when it comes to squadding. If a five shooter squad was mandatory there wouldn't be four exceptions to the rule.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,636
    Location:
    HI
    Trap4ever,

    Looks like Bulge just phrased his question wrong. I think the question really was "How many shooters where required to hold a registered shoot in 1990-94?". He posted that V10 answered the question about registering targets during that time.

    I think that the rule could be rewritten better than to imply that the squads shall have 5 shooters, with the list of exceptions. Maybe something in the line of: The maximum number of shooters on a squad shall be 5. Squadding shall be at the discretion of shoot management to promote the safety and harmony of the shoot.

    Jason
     
  11. hfrogdogc

    hfrogdogc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    173
    You could have three shooters on the 20yd line and two shooters on the 27yd line and still have a program they do not need to be on the same squad henry
     
  12. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,638
    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    henry,

    Right now you could have one shooter on the 18, one on the 23 and one on the 27 and that would be enough to constitute a registered handicap event. You only need three shooters to have a registered event.
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    Jason it already says that if you read the rule.

    Trap if the rule was mandatory five shooters how would you handle squadding the three necessary shooter to hold a registered shoot?????

    If it were mandatory five shooters why would you need this,

    "except:

    a. When there are less than five (5) contestants available for the last squad of any program.

    b. When yardage differences in Handicap events make it impractical or unsafe.

    c. When there are withdrawals from a squad after the competition has begun and squads scheduled.

    d. When in the opinion of shoot management, the harmony of the shoot may be enhanced by squadding less than five (5) contestants."

    AT any rate just argue with yourself as I won't any longer on this rule.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,319
    trap4ever,

    Are you pulling our collective legs? What you're saying isn't even implied in the rule you posted. In your own post it says that shoot management can squad less than 5 if they feel it will help.

    I don't understand what the confusion is?
     
  15. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,684
    Location:
    West Central Florida
    Guys please remember, I am asking about the rules in 1990-1991-1992, not the rules today.

    Waverider, I am not sure of your statement about my question. You may be right and I did not phrase it correctly. I'll try it again.

    In 1990, there about, 3 men show up at a club to register birds, and only these 3 men are shooting, could they, according to ATA rules in 1990 legally have the birds registered? Other shooters non ATA shooters were shooting practice on other traps, not on the trap the ATA shooters were on.

    I hope I made it clear and asked the question properly.

    Bob lawless I asked you this question in a PM and you sure didn't have the answers that you are expressing now. Did you have a change of heart. Thanks, Bulge.
     
  16. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,638
    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    Mike,

    If they were the only ones to shoot that event, then, no, those targets could not have been registered.


    Scott
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    Mike I answered what you asked about not what you are asking now. On Feb. 27 you asked.

    "Now as I see on a post 3 men can make a squad but didn't the ATA rules once require 5 men to make a squad at a registered bird shoot?"

    You asked about a squad now you are asking about how many shooters are needed to register the targets shot. If you had asked me that I would have answered as Scott has answered Three now.

    To actually answer your question in the 2002 rulebook it says 5 are needed to register the targets. In the 2003 rulebook it says 3 are needed I think it is a safe bet to think that in 90-91 that it said 5 were needed. BTW those three shooters can be on 3 different squads if yardages conflict.

    In all honesty I didn't realize that you were looking for the number of shooters needed to register targets. I truly thought you were looking for the number of shooters needed to make a legal squad. As in trap4ever interpretation of the rule about how many shooter to make a squad.

    If you feel I was stringing you along I will with due respect ask you did I give this as a sighted rule,

    "d. When in the opinion of shoot management, the harmony of the shoot may be enhanced by squadding less than five (5) contestants."

    Didn't I also tell you that this section of the rule was like a cure all for the number of shooters in a squad. If so and it isn't what you wanted I never heard back from you.

    If there is hard feelings between us over this I apologize as I gave the answer to the question that I thought was being asked of me.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,371
    Three or Five, whats the difference ..? With those numbers why even bother ..?
    WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  19. missed some

    missed some TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    708
    but just think how big the lewis will be Bill, and the 50's are gonna pay out like a slot machine! mark
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    Bill I don't know what the events are like in that big open country where you are. Here a lot of clubs hold marathons and usually the shooters that need targets. Attend and will shoot four or five hundred to get their targets.

    Some want even more that sometimes makes it difficult to come up with enough shooters to cover all the targets. I do believe if memory serves me correctly that is why it was lowered from five to three.

    Bob Lawless
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.