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ATA Rule Modification Suggestion.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JBrooks, Mar 1, 2008.

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  1. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    While several of us were sitting around between events today at an ATA shoot, one of the guys mentioned that there were several short squads. Another suggested that he would be glad to go out and shoot another 100, (targets only) on one of the short squads. It seemed to be agreed that this would be a great way of filling some of the down time for guys that would just as soon be shooting as waiting around.

    You would count your first 100 for trophies while the extra targets would be registered but not scored for trophies. This would make spending most of the day at an ATA shoot a lot more fun because I could get in 400 instead of 200 targets. Also, there would be a lot more full squads and the clubs could use the extra target income. While you couldn't win Champion yardage on your extra HC targets, you should be able to earn score punches.

    The Rule Book says that you can only enter an event once. However, if you are not shooting your second 100 for scoring, you still have entered the event only once, that being your first 100 targets. The Rule book also says that practice shooting of non-registered targets is not allowed on a squad shooting registered targets. However, in that the second 100 will be registered, that doesn't seem to apply.

    So, is this legal already or should there be a rule clarification made?
     
  2. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    I can not see any difference in doing that or shooting a Marathon . It would let the club make more money let the shooter register more targets and make the time pass >
     
  3. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    tsk...tsk...tsk....Why would any organization wish to participate in a plan that will make their membership happier, spend more money and help out the host club?

    Anyway, makes good sense to me. It would add a little extra time & paperwork for the host club which I see as the only detriment.

    Curt
     
  4. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Marathons are legal but what you are suggesting is not legal in ATA.
     
  5. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    What do we do with the formerly full squad that now became a short squad? A shooter could possible be shooting alone if he was so abandoned without warning!!
     
  6. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Mike, why is it not legal?

    dawg. What are you talking about?
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Brooks, let's say you shoot the first 100 and you notice earlier short squads you'd much rather shoot on so you can finish earlier. You then decide to abandon your later squad and move up and that would make your later squad a short one!!
     
  8. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    I just do not get it . You can do that now ??
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    It is not legal because the second hundred is practice for that shooter, and that is not allowed. There is no such thing as "the extra targets would be registered but not scored for trophies" since registered shooting does not necessarily equate to shooting for trophies. The targets are either registered or not. You can't enter the same event twice, so the second hundred is not registered, and is therefore practice.
     
  10. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Actually, most targets in a registered event are "practice". Ask an AA shooter who misses his first one what the next 99 are. LOL

    I think targets are registered if they are submitted on the shoot report to the ATA and State Assn. I think that is what makes them registered. By example, just because targets are shot in a registered event by a bonafide ATA member does not automatically make them registered. Who, beside me, knows what would cause this to happen?
     
  11. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    It,s really very simple . You shoot your 100 targets but have the option of shooting MORE registerd targets for registerd targets only no class no money.

    It,s a good idea that can only help the club and the shooter .
     
  12. Ray Brasser

    Ray Brasser Member

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    You can do it at a PITA shoot.
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Ray,

    Can a shoot report show a shooter shot 200 singles but only one event?
     
  14. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    If you have three shooters, it could be registered as a second event. What difference would it make if they shot together or on three seperate squads.
    Consider the Big 50's, practice shooters are permitted to mix with registered shooters on squads. Really, what's the difference?

    Big Jack
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Call it event four, 100 singles, and get three shooters to enter.

    But didn't I read here a few dozen times that one of the problems with registered shooting is that it takes too long now? Now add a handful of singles shooters shooting twice (or more) and everybody has to wait while they finish up before they get to start handicap. Is this what was meant by taking too long?

    Neil
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Under the current rules, as explained by Neil, you would have to get three shooters to fill in short squads and the management would have to report these scores as a separate event.
    JBrooks is suggesting a rule change to something like- A shooter may enter an event more than one time: however only the first score shot during the event would be considered toward trophies/money.

    Such a change on the surface does not sound bad to me. But, I have learned the hard way that any rule change must be carefully considered over some time. It is easy to make a rule change that sounds good but has unintended consequences.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    If it's unintended consequences you are looking for, Pat, plan what happens if a shooter on his second try shoots the high score in handicap, thus getting the punch while someone else wins the event. Or gets both or all the punches.

    What's wrong with just having a second, concurrent event if you don't mind delaying everyone shooting later?

    Neil
     
  18. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    If you don't call it an "event" and call it practice. You would avoid all of the punch consequences.

    Just pay the scorer the fees and turn in the score on a seperate sheet.

    I have never "run" a shoot before and do not know the logistics that occur.
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Nothing, really, Jerry, except it violates the expectation that the one who gets the trophy and the added money also gets the punch.

    Plus who knows how this would play into those incredibly complicated shooter-count rules already in place, the multiple-handicap and all that! Isn't it just easier, cleaner, and uncomplicated to have a second event? That way there's no doubt who shot what event, which scores "count" (they all do), and how much is paid by the shooter to enter each event. Why make it more complicated than it has to be? There's a quick, easy, legal, and well-tested way to get the effect you want already in place; what's the need for another?

    Neil
     
  20. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    OK Neil,

    Point 1. The extra shooters would be limited to open spots on short squads. In that most clubs use the archaic field rotation system anyway making short squads take as long to shoot as full squads, filling in would not appreciably lenghten the event.

    2. In a small shoot with less than 25 shooters, there may not be 3 open spots or 3 extra shooters. Take what you can get.

    3. High Score Punches. This was in my opening post. "While you couldn't win Champion yardage on your extra HC targets, you should be able to earn score punches."

    4. Shooter counts. In that the extra shooters would not be entries in the event, the original entry number would prevail.

    5. I am not advocating entering an event more than once. You just get to fill in and register targets only. What's the big deal?

    6. As for getting score punches while not being entered in an event, that is not nearly as goofy a concept as getting a punch for a 96+ and then have the score disqualified for shooting it at the wrong yardage but retaining the punch.

    7. As for running concurrent events, the Rules specifically prohibit running concurrent HC events where as the Rules don't specifically prohibit what I am proposing.
     
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