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ATA Problems ? Griping ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by blade819, Jan 8, 2012.

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  1. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    I have been reading with interest all the posts about the ATA, the EC, the new rules and categories. I've only been a member since 2007 and enjoy trapshooting more than any sport that I have ever participated in. Not to mention meeting a whole bunch of great people. While I consider myself still a Newbie in some respect in this organization, I am new enough to really stay at arms length away from the in-depth arguments as to the organizations shortcommings. I'll let the long time members figure it out. However, if we have so much disatisfaction, why doesn't someone with a lot of money step forward and start an alternative and competing orgnaization such as PITA ? I'm sure there is a business opportunity there. Why not?

    blade819
     
  2. Rich219

    Rich219 Active Member

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    You could create a new organization that fixed all of the problems that everyone here complains about and guess what, they would complain about something else.
     
  3. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Copied from another thread:

    "ATA Rules, Section I: "The ATA Board of Directors and/or the Executive Committee reserves the right to make alterations in, or amendments to these Rules at any time, whenever it is deemed to be in the best interest of the ATA."

    When was the last time that the BOD reached an agreement on a non trivial way of fixing the Handicap System ??
     
  4. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    People say they want change but in reality they will resist any change. It human nature (I don't exclude myself).
     
  5. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    That's been my experience both with large organizations and human nature.

    blade819
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    The EC went wrong when they came up with this without the approval of the delegates. Had they run this by the delegates and got their approval, they would have dramitically spread not only the responsibility, but the communication to the members. I would feel a lot better about this if my delegate (who I voted for)told me why this was done and why it makes sense instead of some "I know the right people" EC dude telling me that this is what they decided by themselves.

    Past experience tells me this usually causes a cluster --ck, and pisses off a lot off people.

    It is, and it has.
     
  7. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    There are two major problems with the current way the ATA does it's business and both result in the members feeling like they kept in the dark and have no voice.


    One, which has been discussed here at length is the ability of Executive Committee to change modify or delete any of the rules without delegate notification or approval i.e. adding 3 new categories. This can be eliminated by changing the bylaws and prohibiting the Executive Committee from making rule changes.


    The second problem is the way “new business” is conducted at the annual meeting. Delegates are the only people that can make proposals and submit them for a vote. The problem with the current structure is a poorly thought out proposal/rule change can be presented at the annual meeting and potentially pass.


    This can be fixed if there were a requirement that all new changes to the rules or the bylaws be submitted to the ATA office 60 days prior to the annual meeting and posted on the ATA web-site. This would provide all the delegates an opportunity to review changes and discuss those changes with the shooters in their state prior to the meeting.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  8. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Setterman and Mr. Hauser are right on target as usual.
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The members of an organization should have a vote on proposed rule changes. HMB
     
  10. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    Registered shooters are whiners. Thats the way it has always been. You either put up with it or stop shooting registered like I did because it will never change
     
  11. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Hauser there is a system in place. You take your change to your delegate and if he feels it has merit, he will take it to Your zone meeting and discuss it with other delegates in your zone if positive it will come out of there and go to the general meeting.

    If you opened the meeting up to everybody you would have a cluster _ _ _k with all the Longshot's of the world taking up hours talking about nothing.

    The system should work most of the time. But like all systems it can and does have it's problems on occasion.

    HMB: You're dreaming and unrealistic.

    Don
     
  12. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Don

    First: There is nothing in my post suggesting the rule changing process should be opened to the general membership.


    Second: I dont believe delegates are required to have their proposals reviewed and get a positive response at the zone meetings prior to making a motion at the annual meeting. That may make common sense but please show me where it's a requirement.


    Third: The system doesn't work when it's abused and this system has been abused. It was abused when the EC unilaterally made a decision that affected most of the states and all of the large shoots in the country. My post suggest that the delegates take the power to make rule changes away from the EC.


    Fourth: Please make the case that having submittal deadline for new business 60 days prior to the annual meeting and posting those proposals on the ATA web-site is a bad thing.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  13. cnjranch

    cnjranch Member

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    Mr. Hauser

    I guess is what you have suggested is the organization is to stay "status quo" from the mid part of August to the following year when we reconvene again. How many organizations are run like that? Are they successful?

    How do you suggest we move forward with a business plan for the future? Who is responsible for a two, three, five year direction?

    I am only asking as I would like to understand and be educated on how you and possibly others think a business is to operate with the one time a year meetings.

    Respectfully Submitted

    James Hammond

    California Delegate
     
  14. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    Big Don has it about right with his response to Setterman and Mr Hauser. The membership should have a vote on the BYLAWS, they don't need to be involved in the day to day running of the organization or the rules. That should be left to the EC eected? by the BOD and the BOD elected from the 57 states.

    Good luck James

    Robert
     
  15. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Jerry I don't see anything wrong with your 60 days or posting the changes on the web site. If there we can read them and then tell our delegate what we personally think.

    I don't know where the meeting arrangements for delegates and the zone are written I just know that is what happens.

    Mr. Hammond why not suggest that you/they get together on the WEB on a regular basis. If all the delegates is to much, then meet as a zone and have the zone pres/chair then meet along with the other zones with the EC on another web meeting. It happens all the time in the real world. You can scan the material and have it in each others hands in a flash. There is no reason to stay disconnected in todays world.

    Don
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    RWT, It's called "COMMUNICATION".

    Any business or venture needs good communication to be successful. With all the past mistrust toward the EC, I would think they would at least try to inform the delegates of their thoughts.
     
  17. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    Setterman, I have to appologise for including you in my response to Big Don. It should have been Mr. Hauser And HMB. Sorry my mistake.

    I am sure that some of the delegates knew of this before it happend, maybe not all.

    Robert
     
  18. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    "The members of an organization should have a vote on proposed rule changes. HMB"

    HMB : That is the way to go I have always thought. But it is probably to "simple" to work. Or more like it is the word "simple" that would not allow the talking heads to imagine it!

    CM
     
  19. Donm

    Donm Active Member

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    Mr Hammond. You are correct about business needs to done more often than every Aug. But rule changes could be done once a year in Aug. Just before the begining of the target year instead of a few months into the year. I too feel there needs to be some work done on the by-laws to limit the power of the EC when it comes to rule changes. The delegate we have doesn't want to create any waves so there fore he has not said one word about these changes to the shooters of our state. He didn't bother posting the new rule on the web site we pay for and even have a spot for Delegates to post information. I believe he was worried the flak that he would take. It seems that you as the Calf. Delegate are active and have the shooters of your state's best interests in mind. I wish I could say the same about my state.
     
  20. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    RWT, No problem, forget it.
     
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