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ATA-PITA CROSS REGISTRATION INFORMATION

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mandibelle, Aug 4, 2010.

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  1. mandibelle

    mandibelle TS Member

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    As many of you by now know, the ATA has cancelled the LOA (letter of agreement) with the PITA which allows shooters to cross register targets between each association.

    The PITA was blinsided by the ATA's decision, and we have, and still are, making every effort to work with the ATA.

    As we know (which is very little) due to the lack of communication from the ATA, this decision was made due to improper or lack of paperwork between both associations.

    Nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes, but believe me when we say that this problem is from both sides and not just the PITA, as we were led to believe.

    On April 11th, the ATA had their EC meeting and during that meeting is when the ATA terminated the LOA with the PITA.

    The PITA was never contacted prior to the meeting in reference to and investigation conducted by Dick Marascola.

    Besides the papework it was also alleged that shooters were allowed to pick and choose which events to cross register, which is a violation of the LOA.

    Again, we were never contacted or notified so this is a one sided decision.

    I am attaching a letter that the EC of the PITA has sent to the ATA, as well as all delegates.

    We are hoping that this decision in reversed for the benefit of all the shooters.

    This has nothing to do whether someone prefers ATA over PITA or viceversa.

    Cross registration is a benefit to ALL shooters in a sport that needs help.

    We hope all shooters realize the importance and take a stance to better this sport.

    July 30, 2010

    Mr. Frank Riley,

    As we stated on our letter responding to the cancellation of the current LOA (Letter of Agreement) in May, 2010, we at PITA believe cross registration of targets is a beneficial program for many of the shooters who are members of both associations. This is not just a PITA statement but comes directly from comments of shooters from both ATA and PITA. Sometimes Corporations and Associations forget their purpose of doing business and stop listening to their members. We are in business to support our shooter members and we need to listen to their requests and do all we can to provide them a great shooting experience. We hope that ATA shares this same vision with us. This leads me to the heart of this letter which is trying to find a fair resolution and make cross registration easier for your Association.

    We can all agree, considering the financial side, cross registration is a win-win situation for ATA, PITA and all State/Provincial Associations. During these tough economic times, where both Associations and all State/Provincial Associations are dealing with lower revenues and fewer renewals, why would we want to lose another source of income? In addition, our research shows that a large number of our new PITA shooters have also become ATA members; something they may not had done without the benefit of cross registration. Finally and most important is the paperwork issue with cross registration. We were blindsided by your cancellation of the LOA based on paperwork problems. Nobody wants to do extra paperwork and we certainly understand how frustrating incorrect paperwork can be. Our Executive Committee has thought long and hard on how to fix this issue and have devised the following proposal to correct the paperwork issue and to allow shooters to take advantage of cross registration without being a burden to either organization.

    All cross registration paperwork and monies will be sent to a designated administrator who will review it prior to being sent to ATA. By doing this it will assure that the paperwork received by ATA will be correct as well as allow PITA to work with any member clubs that need help with paperwork. We will monitor this process very closely with our member clubs and we will impose penalties on the clubs that fail to correct mistakes. For this to work we will need to extend the current ten days allotted for submission of paperwork to ATA, per the LOA, to twenty days to allow for mailing and processing time. With your acceptance we would begin this process immediately and continue through the end of 2010 as a trial period. This will allow time for our member clubs to understand, learn and comply with proper paperwork procedures. Starting in January, 2011, we would continue to monitor our member clubs paperwork by requesting copies of any documentation sent to ATA.

    On behalf of our Executive Committee, State/Provincial Associations and the thousands of shooters that make ATA and PITA a success, we hope that you reconsider the cancellation of our current LOA and continue to allow cross registration of targets for all shooters.

    Sincerely,
    Jennifer Carter, President, Pacific International Trapshooting Association
     
  2. blackfoot

    blackfoot Member

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    Bunch of old senile old bastards running ATA!How stupid!

    Let's see, let's alienate Western shooters/PITA and piss off shooters!

    -ATA membership/attendance is in a decline

    -ATA is losing money

    And PITA management why didn't you know that you didn't have an agreement. You have collected fees from shooters this ENTIRE season for cross registering targets!
     
  3. Caesar Trap

    Caesar Trap Member

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    I am a shooter from Ontario Canada who recently attended the Canadian Trapshooting Championships in Vancouver British Columbia from July 1-4 2010. Being from Ontario I belong to the ATA; but the Canadian Championships in Vancouver was a PITA tournament with cross registration available. While in Vancouver I joined PITA, and paid to cross register my targets to the ATA. Today I can go to the ATA website and indeed the targets from the PITA tournament are cross registered with the ATA.

    I cannot explain the comments above, but my targets from July 1-4 2010 were cross registered from PITA to the ATA.

    Kyle Winter
     
  4. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    My scores at an ATA shoot held at the end of June were cross registered with the PITA and recorded properly in both associations. A very recent (2 weeks ago) meeting with the ATA Western Zone VP assures that he will diligently pursue reinstatement of the agreement which is a benefit to both ATA and PITA shooters in the Western states and Canadian Provinces.
     
  5. makalii600323

    makalii600323 TS Member

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    So what happens to the fee's paid to the ATA to "Cross Register" targets after April 11th???
     
  6. mandibelle

    mandibelle TS Member

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    BLACKFOOT:

    All targets up to date have been cross register with ATA and PITA> The cancellation of the LOA is effective 180 days from May, 2010. So basically starting in November nobody will be able to cross register targets with ATA unless they reverse their decision.

    PITA will continue to allow cross registration. That means that if you are a PITA and you shoot at an ATA event you can cross register to PITA.

    Please be careful with the comments you make. THank you
     
  7. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Mandibelle.. Tell me how that's going to work? If you are shooting an ATA shoot and want to cross register your targets with the PITA, in light of the termination of the LOA, wouldn't the ATA cashier at that shoot be prohibited, due to this termination, from cross registering ANY targets?... I think, in reality, if the ATA eliminates this practice, it will all be terminated, on both sides...... Just my view.. Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  8. mandibelle

    mandibelle TS Member

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    Trap 2

    ATA has cancelled their LOA with PITA, however PITA will continue to allow ATA shooters that are also PITA shooters the opportunity to cross register targets to PITA. PITA does not need a letter of agreement for this to take place. However you can not force a club throwing ATA targets to do this. I suppose they are going to be some clubs that won't do it. They are many clubs that register both ATA and PITA birds though
     
  9. Jack Frost

    Jack Frost TS Member

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    Seems like the ATA forgot that there are some shooters out West.

    J.F.
     
  10. blackfoot

    blackfoot Member

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    Mandibelle,I just checked and my targets have not showed up on ATA after paying the fees for the last 3 shoots!I just checked the PITA web page and there is no letter posted or announcement to the membership about this change.

    The EC's of both ATA and PITA need to work together for the common good of the sport; this is very disrespectful to Western shooters,and I THINK hurts growing the shooter base in the far Western states.

    This is just one guy's opinion!
     
  11. mandibelle

    mandibelle TS Member

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    Blackfoot:

    PITA does not have control as when ATA will post scores. In general it does take them longer than usual. At this time you won't see anything posted for awhile due to the G.A. We have sent all cross registered scores as well as all the collected fees.

    PITA EC has bent backwards trying to solve this problem. It takes two to fix it. That is the reason why I posted our most recent letter to ATA> The ball is in their court.
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Somehow I'm reminded of why the PITA came to be back in the 1930s - It was basically because western shooters felt they had no consideration from the ATA management. Now there are PITA shooters and ATA shooters that still hold grudges and animosity for the "other" organization. I sharpened my molars at a club in the 1970s that threw ATA events and PITA events, generally one each month, as well as club and organized league shooting. I shot in both organizations and ignored the animosity at that time but do have to wonder some......breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  13. Too Bad

    Too Bad TS Member

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    Mandibelle the letter of agreement has a 180 day termination for cause by either group, ATA or PITA. 180 days from April is sometime in October, so I believe you can still cross register PITA targets.

    And by the way the Executive Director of ATA is Dr. Frank Rively, not Riley...read the agreement and know who you need to address a letter to.

    And by the way....ATA President and the Executive Committee are the ones who would be most likely to make or accept any changes to the agreement, not Dr. Frank Rively.
     
  14. blackfoot

    blackfoot Member

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    Mandibelle,Thanks! I'll get after it to make sure my scores are logged!

    This is too bad and hard to believe that 2 great organizations can't work together for the common good.The shooters deserve better than this,I guess the ATA doesn't need Western shooters!
     
  15. mandibelle

    mandibelle TS Member

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    rich left

    You are correct it is Frank Rively and does who the response was addressed to. It was misspelled on ts.com when it was cut and paste it. It was sent to Dr. Frank Rively because the termination letter was addressed and signed by him.

    If you are not involved please keep your opinions to yourself. We are trying to fix something here and we need positive feedback and not a smart mouth.

    Thanks
     
  16. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Mandibelle... Take it easy and take a deep breath here. rich left simply voiced an opinion. As a registered shooter, he IS involved and has a right to his opinion. None of us are happy, or satisfied, in both camps, with the ATA's decision, and we are going to let the ATA know about it. Your right, we need positive feedback, a courteous and informed dialog with each other, and a show of respect for both sides. Your response to rich left does not convey those attributes. Perhaps you should rethink your response's before delivering them.

    Bob Dodd is exactly right about his post. The PITA was formed several years ago because several ATA shooters were upset because the ATA and the EC had shown little respect, or caring, about the shooters on the West Coast. They broke from the ATA and started the PITA to rectify that. There are, indeed, many ATA, and PITA shooters that are still hanging on to one of the most damaging things that can happen in our sport: A division of the ranks. These particular shooters are the remnants of that "good old boy" club that refuses to concede anything to each other that will draw the two organizations closer together. The agreement to cross register targets was the first, legitimate step towards closing that gap, and establishing a dialog with the ATA until someone in the ATA decided that it was too much trouble, and, perhaps, the PITA was threatening them in some fashion by supporting some of their clubs when asked to do so. I, personally, suspect it also had something to do with the controversy at Redlands, and Redlands and HSC deciding to throw PITA targets and temporarily suspend their ATA shoots.While this is strictly conjecture on my part, the timing of all this sure seems to fit nicely into the ATA's decision, doesn't it? What we need, desperately, is a united front, on both sides, that will actively promote what is best for our sport, FOR BOTH SIDES. You can tell, by reading the letter from Jennifer Carter, President of the PITA, that the PITA is doing EVERYTHING they can to protect this agreement, as it is important to the PITA that we all work together, while it is evident that the ATA wants to work independently and could care less about the PITA and their Letter of Agreement.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  17. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Rich Left is the ATA delegate for the State of Arizona and takes all shooters concerns seriously ... Smart mouth, I think not ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  18. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    Dan (Trap2),

    I totally agree with you on the timing and possible reason for all of this and am really glad you brought that up. There is indeed, more to this story and we're not getting it.

    The EC of the ATA just doesn't understand how many people this will actually hurt and that's a shame.
     
  19. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I want to thank Jennifer and the officers of PITA for the effort that they are putting into this issue. It is very important to many of us out here in rural Nevada.

    The thing that I worry about is that the refusal on the part of ATA to cross register targets from PITA events is that it may force shooters to decide which organization they want to participate in. We have been making great progress in northern NV in getting more PITA shoots and our state PITA shoot is a very popular event. I would hate to make our customers choose between attending these shoots or going down the road to an ATA shoot. It wouldn't be a good thing for either organization or the people that support them.
     
  20. mandibelle

    mandibelle TS Member

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    Trap 2, rich left and others:

    First I apologize if I was somewhat harsh oon rich left for his reply. However, please read his thread again "read the agreement and know who you need to address a letter to". "And by the way....ATA President and the Executive Committee are the ones who would be most likely to make or accept any changes to the agreement, not Dr. Frank Rively".

    Below you will find the letter sent by ATA from Dr. Frank Rively terminating the LOA with PITA. As I mentioned before, this is the only communciation we have received from ATA at any given time.

    Where do I get all the other information. Well, I am not just jumping on ts.com to spread rumors or try to make any organization look bad. Actully, this is taken valuable time from my daily activities but it is important that the shooters out there learn what is happening.

    I personally spoke with ATA and I was told about the issue on the paperwork. I also have in my posession and that thanks to one of your fellow ts.com members a copy of an email from an ATA delegage in Arizona that I know was forwarded to the ATA EC on February 2011 that started all this.

    Trap 2, you are probably correct, the Redlands issue is part of this, but so is the Arizona issue as well, where a trap club there has been under constand assault from the ASA since they joined PITA.

    As you can tell there is lots politics involved here not just paperwork not done, but ATA in my opinion had chosen to run and hide on this issue.

    I am not familiar with the PITA history with ATA and frankly it doesnt matter. We brought PITA to our club because it helped our shooters. The shooters wanted it and it make sense. Now, it may not make sense for every club or every shooter, but it doesn't mean it is wrong. We converted over 20 league shooters into PITA shooters and over 50% of those shooters has now joined ATA. How can that be wrong?

    I knew that posting this subject on ts.com would bring some negative reaction.


    [​IMG]
     
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