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ATA 'no target' rule question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mrskeet410, Dec 26, 2007.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    I've checked your rulebook for your 'no target' rules. There seem to be a number of circumstances where your referee/scorer should declare "NO TARGET". That's not my question.

    My question is, is the referee/scorer expected to call, or at least try to call, "NO TARGET" before the shooter takes his shot?
     
  2. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Most of them are not that fast.
     
  3. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    It's not necessary. Most shooters will recognize a "no target" bird before the scorer does anyway.

    Morgan
     
  4. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    And that my friend is why you carry a few extra shells with you.




    Jim
     
  5. baflstang

    baflstang Member

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    And please, let the referee make the call. Do not disrupt your squad mates by calling no target for the ref. He is perfectly capable of making the call. Besides, the only time he needs help is if your squad mate misses the piece. Just my two cents worth. I hope you all had a Merry CHRISTMAS and that you all have a great and prosperous New Year! Good luck in 2008.
    Bill Weaver
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the job most clubs do when hiring people to score our targets. Most are good at it and some have never heard of a "no-target" situation in their limited training! It's up to the shooter to know the rules and when to turn those down. A broken bird coming out of the house and wiggling somewhat straight can be lost if the shooter fires and misses and no one sees it's a wobbling broken clay. Easy to do, I did that a while back for such a loss. Hap
     
  7. Roger IL

    Roger IL TS Member

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    Bill, I do not agree with your statement," Do not disrupt your squad mates by calling no target for the ref. He is perfectly capable of making the call. Besides, the only time he needs help is if your squad mate misses the piece." On more than one occasion both I and the scorer have "missed the piece" and it was called by a squad mate.........Roger
     
  8. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    The one's I've had disputes over are those that come out of the house with the center missing. I have never had a scorer pick up on one of those even though they always fly flat and short. Either I have to call them or a sharp-eyed squad member will do it.

    Morgan
     
  9. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    I was shooting in Central Square and a broken target came out and I shot the piece and broke it. There were some experenced shooters on the line with me that day and they said I had to shoot it over again no problem here. When I was shooting at the NY State NYSATA Home grounds the shooter before me shot and broke a broken target and I waited for him to shoot it over and the squad leader asked if he broke the target and I said yes. He told me to its ok and go ahead and shoot and I did. Is there a rule or if the scorer doesn't see it its ok ?? . Either way doesn't matter to me next time I'll just call for the bird...


    Martin Milano
     
  10. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    There are no rules ... there is just interpretations of what is written.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If the scorer makes a mistake, the shooter should turn and politely say "no target". When the center of the target is broken, it is not unusual for both the scorer and the shooter not to see the problem. Then, someone else on the squad should tell the scorer that it was a no target. I have often hit a broken target without knowing it was broken. I put my gun down and then wounder why the next shooter has not shot. Then someone tells me it was a broken target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. sxs28ga

    sxs28ga TS Member

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    A broken target should be shot over - a lot of "score keepers" dont know the rules - there should be some kind of certification for the score keepers - much like there is in skeet - J Mroczka
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It is the responsibility of each shooter to know and follow the rules.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    sxs28ga ... by your total grammatical butchery in your response I can fully understand why you failed that test so many years ago.
     
  15. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Geezzzz - Here is the deal. I saw both targets I know mine was broken when it came out and I shot it anyway because thats what I do. I'm programmed to shoot at somthing and I do. I also saw the other shooters broken target he did also and so did the squad leader. I guess what I'm asking also is what the hell do you actually do ? Wait or stop. I'm a rookie shooter just learning the rules and trying to keep quiet and watch. Its like your dammed if you do or dammed if you don't . My take is to keep shooting unitl sombody says stop or I'm out of shells .

    Martin Milano 0765881
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Another thing about certifying refs as in skeet is cost. Skeetie refs are paid to pull. Generally, $25 per five man squad. This would have to be added to the fees. (OUCH)

    The NSSA test and cred are not free.

    I have seen folks told to shoot a broken target over, and also to let it ride. I like to see rules followed when I shoot, and make sure they are when I pull, but otherwise I am not going to hurl my lunch if something gets by the ref or squad leader. The day a registered shoot turns into work and hard feelings on the line is the day I no longer shoot registered.

    If I am not a squad leader, and I no longer feel the need to be one unless asked, I do not generally watch every target shot by other shooters. This is part of MY pre shot routine.
     
  17. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    The pullers are usally not trained well enough so it's up to the individual shoter to know the rules. A broken target is to be re-shot. I don't care what the squad leader, the ref or anybody else has to say about it as that is the rule. It may not effect the outcome of where you as an individual shooter end up but it very well can effect somebody else. Most people do not know the rules. Very few peole know all the rules. I include myself in the group. I think you should try and know them all but you should have at least a working knowlage of the rules that will come into to play the most and that are the most mis-understood. Failure to fire, no target, gun malfunctions. Jeff
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jeff- You got it right.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    Ask yourself this when appropiate. If a shooter shot at a broken target and missed it, you as a squad member would speak up and state that it was a broken target and had to be shot over.

    There is no difference when a shooter shoots a broken target and hits it. It is still each shooters responsibility to speak up that it was a broken target and has to be shot over.
     
  20. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    While shooting one ATA events one time, a 27 yard shooter was shooting with his son. They were both 27 yard shooters, and should know the rules.

    The old man was shooting really good. He had run 22 straight or so on his first trap, and then he got a obvious broken bird, shot at it and broke it some more.

    The trap puller said nothing, and I and another friend hollered "broken bird", you have to shoot that over again.

    Well, he did and he clean missed it.

    After that, he went down hill.......maybe through lack of concentration or whatever.

    After we were done, he told me that I was wrong to call that broken bird, and that only the trap puller could call it. I should have minded my own business.

    I told him he was wrong and I would call it every time I see it, because the puller doesn't always see every broken bird. Plus, if he would have missed it, I would still have called it a broken bird and he would have got to shoot over again.

    He was ticked off at me and has never spoke to me since that day.

    I thought it was really bad that he was teaching his teenage son that it was okay to not obey the rules as long as you win.

    Hauxfan!
     
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