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ATA needs to switch to 7/8 oz of shot

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by BLACKDOG, Jul 24, 2007.

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  1. BLACKDOG

    BLACKDOG TS Member

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    With price of shot at $ 36.00 a dollar a bag and NEW shells going up everyday. Would it not make sense to attempt to reduce costs a little, the FPS. is not a factor any longer, so speed could be added to these shells. Apperently in International Trap the use 28 gram loads and when the reduced the loads the scores went up. Seems like a smart idea to me. I have shot these shell for years and see NO change in scores. What do you think ???
     
  2. AJJ

    AJJ TS Member

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    They now use 24 gram loads, a few pellets short of a 7/8 oz load, and again the scores went up. The top shooters will still win regardlous. AJ.
     
  3. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    A 28gram loads are basicly a 1 ounce load, your thinking of the 24gram load which is a pubical hair less than 7/8 ounce.

    It would be a great idea but you can already shoot that load now if you desire to shoot it ... it is your decision but there will be many many and I mean many people who will fight and argue on how and why they will shoot an 1-1/8 ounce load for as long as the ATA allows them to. They feel they need the extra lead as some sort of mental insurance of breaking the birds.
     
  4. BLACKDOG

    BLACKDOG TS Member

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    With price of shot at $ 36.00 a dollar a bag and NEW shells going up everyday. Would it not make sense to attempt to reduce costs a little, the FPS. is not a factor any longer, so speed could be added to these shells. Apperently in International Trap the use 28 gram loads and when the reduced the loads the scores went up. Seems like a smart idea to me. I have shot these shell for years and see NO change in scores. What do you think ???
     
  5. AJJ

    AJJ TS Member

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    They now use 24 gram loads, a few pellets short of a 7/8 oz load, and again the scores went up. The top shooters will still win regardlous. AJ.
     
  6. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    A 28gram loads are basicly a 1 ounce load, your thinking of the 24gram load which is a pubical hair less than 7/8 ounce.

    It would be a great idea but you can already shoot that load now if you desire to shoot it ... it is your decision but there will be many many and I mean many people who will fight and argue on how and why they will shoot an 1-1/8 ounce load for as long as the ATA allows them to. They feel they need the extra lead as some sort of mental insurance of breaking the birds.
     
  7. Lkn4rocks

    Lkn4rocks TS Member

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    *

    levi391….. Lumper is correct on the gram loads and FYI 28 gram loads are not allowed in International Trap.... Now speaking from the view point of a semi-blind-old-fart that needs all the help that he can get with putting shot around the target.

    I am more than satisfied with the present rules of the ATA but then again as an individual if you are concerned with the ever rising cost of components to play this game and you want to limit your self to a 28 gram load more power to you as you have that same right to shoot any load that falls within the ATA guidelines, just don't wish your will on the rest of us!
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    levi, with that little shot long-yardage shooters would miss targets they aimed perfectly at - not enough shot & too many holes. (Remember, International gets 48 grams of shot, not 24 - we've no second shot). This would introduce too large an element of chance into a sport many of us (mostly) consider a test of skill, not luck.

    Neil;
     
  9. C H S

    C H S TS Member

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    Forcing people to use lighter shot loads would get you the same kind of reaction that you get when you pass laws that make them use seatbelts, wear helmets on cycles, quit blowing their smoke in other peoples faces and eat the right foods. They know damned well that it makes good sense and its the right thing to do but they'll fight you all the way on it because somebody ELSE pointed out that it was right.

    Andy
     
  10. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    I will cast a vote that levi391 uses a 7/8 load. And that Harlan feller, he should use about a 1/4 oz cuz I think he uses WAY too much shot, thereby causing a shortage for the rest of us. John
     
  11. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    No Neil ... you are wrong again. International trap only gets 24grams of shot each time they shoot and by the time the they take the first shot the target is about the same distance as a 23 or 24 yd handicap shooter flying at a much faster rate and possibly much wider angles and varying elevations.

    By the time the 2nd shot comes into play for those that miss on the first shot the target is already farther away then a 27yd handicap shooter and still flying at a much faster and possibly much wider angles and varying elevations.

    Neil ... please fully explain why you always mention the 2nd shot in international trap when discussing shot loads ... just how do you figure it comes into play when speaking of load against load ... unless of course you actually need all the pellets you can get to help make up for some possible deficiency in your shooting capabilities. Is that the reason? You actually need all that help?
     
  12. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    Just let the people decide what they want to use. If they want to stick with 1 1/8oz loads thats up to them.
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    lumpster, the reason I keep keep bringing it up is that every time - when I am careful - I add 24 and 24 I get 48. I've no idea what the significance of "each time they shoot" is supposed to convey. We really aren't talking about "times they shoot" since it makes little difference. The thing that shows up on the score-sheet is how many times they break a target, not how many times they shoot. (DTL is different.) Every time they try to break a target they have use of 48 grams of shot, some of which they may or may not use at their discretion.

    Shoot-offs in International are one shot. Look at the results and see that while some few don't need that added 24 grams of shot, many, many surely do.

    A person only needs "all that shot" if they want a fair chance of breaking a perfectly-pointed target almost all the time. Those who don't want that chance are free to shoot less or no shot for that matter.

    Neil
     
  14. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    For Neil (and others who have the interest)

    ATA vs. International (Bunker) Trap

    ATA ... targets are larger (110mm) and thinner set between 8 & 12 feet from the ground 10 yards from the house and are supposed to fly between 17.14 degrees either to the right or left of center and fly to a distance of 50 yards with the shooting stations between 16 & 27 yds back from the house depending on you level of shooting.

    International ... targets are smaller (108mm) and thicker set at varying elevations between 5 & 11 feet 11 yards from the house and are are set somewhere between 45 degrees either to the right or left of center and flying a distance of 83 yards with the shooting line is 16.3 yards back from the center of the house.

    Neil ... please explain in a understandable way how you think the second shot is so important to mention when comparing anything related to shot loads of ATA vs. International. By the time the 2nd shot comes into play that smaller, thicker, faster flying and crazier angle and elevation target is generally farther than a 27yd handicap shooters larger, thinner, slower flying at a set elevations and narrower angled target is flying so ... well ... please explain your fixation with the second shot in bunker trap vs. single shot in ATA.
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    levi, I'm guilty of shooting 1 1/8oz. loads for singles but would welcome a change to mandatory lighter shot payloads. This would probably be the brightest and most gutsy move the ATA made in over 50 years. What Neil and the rest fail to admit is the 1 1/8oz. rule was instituted during the era of cardboard and felt wads with guns that patterned around 65 or 70%. I sometimes think we're stuck in the dark ages of shotgunning and can't get out!!
     
  16. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Neil ... have you ever shot international trap on anything more than a trial basis so that you could at least say you shot it?

    Neil ... if we ever have the chance to shoot together and there is a bunker close by I would like to shoot against you. We could square off at the 23 yd line and shoot 100 ATA birds and then square off and shoot 100 (single shot only) at the bunker ... you might begin to realize that if your decent bunker shooter the 2nd shot only comes into play on about less than 5 or 7 birds. Bunker trap is not wone on the 2nd shot but on the first shot ... if and when you make it to a shootoff in bunker trap your only allowed to shot 1 shot and 1 shot only and allot of big tournaments are like ATA and are won at a shootoff.
     
  17. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Ya know ... overall the ATA does not need to change there requirements on what is and what is not allowed to be shot. There is nothing wrong with a 1-1/8oz load just as there is nothing wrong with a 24grm international load either ... it is ultimately up to the shooter and his ability to do what he can do with the load he decides to shoot.
     
  18. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Let's say the average Trap gun in the 1950's patterned between 65 and 70% with cardboard wads. Then say the average Trap gun today with improved ammo patterns at least 75% and some times much greater. We can then say the difference between the 1 1/8oz. loads of yesteryear and the performance of today's 1oz. loads is a wash.

    Simply stated, the game was designed for the 1oz. load of today!!
     
  19. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Just another thought regarding those who think 24gr loads are mandatory to be used in International Trap competitions ... if you wish to use 1oz or 1-1/8oz you may but you will not be eligible for USA Shooting awards. Depending on the tournament and the program you can shoot almost anything your care to shoot in ATA.

    So in Neils view that means you could get away with 2-1/4 ozs of lead in some international trap competitions depending on what your shooting for. Maybe you somebody should use Neils math and lobby and petition the ATA to allow that 2-1/4ozs of lead to be used in ATA.
     
  20. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    cutting shot load size to 1 oz. makes alot of sense. it saves money for shooters and puts less shot on the ground. can you imagine how much shot would be saved by using 1 oz vs 1 1/8 load.
     
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