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ATA and PITA

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Didreckson, Aug 21, 2007.

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  1. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    Being fairly new to the long standing world of trapshooting, what is difference in the two organizations above? I assume PITA is based primarily on the left coast, but do have formal shoots etc. ATA obviously is the grand daddy, and nation wide. Not wanting to start any range wars, just trying to understand the two groups, and their function in our sport.

    Thanks much!
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    You have the correct concept about ATA and PITA. I have shot ATA since 1964 and joined the PITA this summer and shot the Grand Pacific tournament at Littlerock WA for my first ever PITA shoot. I found no noticeable difference in the rules or conduct of the registered shoots but I will say that PITA is a friendly organization and I will definitely shoot again.
     
  3. Little Limber

    Little Limber TS Member

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    PITA is essentially west of the Rockies and dominates trapshooting in BC,OR and Northern CA. About even with ATA in numbers in WA, AK, HI, NV, ID. Probably about 1/10th the size of membership overall or less. Rules are basically the same. Both organizations are run by volunteer boards with a paid staff, so watch out for the politics. In that repsect the two are identical.

    LL
     
  4. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Didreckson, you are assumed pretty much familiar with the ATA and I'll go from there. During the early 1930s, there were 3 or 4 ATA shooters from the far west, actually Wyoming, Montana included, that felt the ATA was totally ignoring the needs and support of the western shooters and decided to form a new association. That was the beginning of the PITA and it still survives well having gone through some ups and downs along the years. I was fortunate to start shooting trap at a club that threw targets for both associations and in the '70s became a life member of both. With nearly transparent differences in minor rules, you could attend shoots in both or either and rarely see a difference. The PITA currently and regularly sanctions shoots in WA, OR, N. CA, NV, ID, HI, and W. Canada but has sanctioned shoots in S. CA, AZ, and as far away as Connecticut in the past. Any club anywhere could ask to throw PITA birds and it would likely be approved if meeting reasonable requirements but it's clear that there would need to be a serious switch in attendees to support PITA birds anywhere east of the Rockies. I'm guessing building the support would be slow.

    Big shoots? Sure, the Grand Pacific is the annual big championships in the PITA, there are State shoots, Series shoots, special holiday shoots, well attended clubs, small clubs, big clubs, old clubs and so on. The PITA has the equivalent of All Americans, Grand Slams, Hall of Fame and, best of all, the difference in rules tend to be shooter oriented, more shooter friendly, and everyday persons in management simply due to it's size. There are shooters in nearly every state and province that will attend PITA shoots annually and there are many ATA "big dogs" that will attend PITA shoots; the likes of Kay Ohye, Daro Handy, and many of historical fame .

    None of my remarks are intended to denigrate the ATA in any manner and, living in PITA Land, I take advantage of cross registration often to remind the ATA I'm still poking holes in the sky....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bob- Wasn't it an ATA EC member who became upset with the ATA and started the PITA? Back when the Grand was rotated each year or so it had been tentatively scheduled for Kansas City and then the other EC members changed their mind about that location. At least that is the story that has been related to me several times.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. FarmerD

    FarmerD TS Member

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    A White Flyer is a White Flyer in either organization. I have shoot both ATA and PITA targets since the middle 60's and they are both hard for me to break on some occasions. Try it you'll like it. RG
     
  7. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    Thanks much for the info. It looked to me like there were many more PITA shoots available for me in Northern CA and even Southern OR than ATA shoots which tend to be further away from me. Both will be great, but was not sure of the relationship between the two organizations.
     
  8. motordoctor

    motordoctor Shoji Tabuchi in Branson

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    I believe that you can go to either shoot and cross register the other association targets for a small fee like 3 or 4 dollars to cover the bookeeping. motordoctor
     
  9. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    Cross registering can be done at those clubs that will allow it. Not all clubs that throw ATA targets will x-ref PITA targets and vice-versa. It's usually a $5 fee for the x-ref and possibly whatever the Daily Fee's are for the x-ref'd organization. I just learned this sitting at the handicapping table this past Saturday at a PITA shoot.

    Didreckson, unfortunately, you are correct. We just don't have as many ATA shoots up here in NorCal. Should you travel to Nevada, you'll find quite a few more there and down in Central California as well. That's why I cross-register every chance I get. If I didn't, I'd be shooting penalty everything for any large ATA shoot I attend!

    By the way, come on over to Coon Creek over Labor Day weekend if you can. It's a 3 day ATA shoot...and yes, you can cross-register if you'd like!

    Sherree
     
  10. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I can't speak to the other states mentioned in Litlle Limber's post, but to say that the Idaho numbers for PITA and ATA are about the same seems to me to be a bit of an exaggeration. The clubs that throw the largest numbers of registered targets each year in Idaho are Lewiston, Pocatello, and Boise in that order. PITA targets are pretty much restricted to about six clubs in SW and south central Idaho: Burley and Ketchum, each of which maybe throws about one small PITA shoot per year, Mountain Home AFB which may not be shooting any registered at all now, and Twin Falls, Boise, and Caldwell, all of which throw shoots of each type during the year. Eastern Idaho (Pocatello and Skyline in Idaho Falls) throw exclusively ATA targets, and as far as I am aware, all of the clubs in northern Idaho are exclusively ATA. In a conversation with Neil Winston at San Antonio this spring, he informed me that Pocatello was in the top fifty clubs in the country in terms of ATA targets thrown each year. I assume that means Lewiston makes that list also.

    As a courtesy to one of our members Pocatello cross-registers targets with PITA at all of our shoots, but the number of shooters taking advantage of the opportunity is insignificant. For example, both the Idaho ATA and Idaho PITA charge shooters one dollar per hundred to register their targets. At our Gun Shoot just concluded I sent the State ATA almost $1600 in target fees (i.e. almost 160,000 ATA targets thrown in four days), while I sent the State PITA $25.

    There has long been tension in Idaho between the State ATA and the Boise Club over their ATA/PITA split. Monies for putting on the State ATA Shoot each year come from those target fees and money returned to the State from the ATA, which is proportional to the number of ATA targets registered. The ATA State Shoot rotates between Boise, Lewiston, and Pocatello on a three-year cycle. Each year Lewiston and Pocatello contribute significantly to those target and ATA fees because of the large ATA shoots, while Boise often generates less than many smaller clubs, including the Skyline Club which is nearly moribund. The question has been raised about why Boise should share in the ATA State Shoot cycle when it puts on several PITA shoots each year instead of supporting the ATA. One answer is that Boise shooters support the ATA by going to other clubs for ATA shoots. Another is that the Boise club throws both ATA and PITA shoots because that is what their members want.

    I've attended a few PITA shoots, but not many. The shooters are pretty much the same faces at both. The only difference I see in the rules is that in PITA the squad leader in doubles gets to see a pair at each station. That seems to me to be a waste of targets and an additional expense to the club, but it's their association, their rules. Most weekends when there is a PITA shoot west of here I can find an ATA shoot in Montana or Utah instead, so I just stick to ATA. No malice intended, but I just stick to the date that brought me.
     
  11. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    Almost no ATA shoots(if any) west of the Cascade Mountains in Washington.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Kolar-G- The location of the Grand moved around quite a bit until the home grounds were established in Vandalia in 1928.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Pat, at one time or another I knew the finer details of the who and why of the birth of the PITA but I've discovered the hard drive between my ears has either been filled to capacity or is failing badly. What you say about at least one of the individuals involved may well be true and, in fact, does seem to nudge some cobwebs. Suffice it to say that there were feelings of ignoring the far west which caused some westerners to start the new association.

    Didreckson, "Relationship between the associations!" If I were to search my experiences over some 30+ years, it is the staunch ATA shooter that is most likely to voice complaints about the PITA while those raised in PITA Land have fewer long term grudges with the ATA. There are many who have felt they were mis-handled at a shoot and decided to "never shoot their birds again" in both associations and there are many like me that support both associations. I've spoken to many people that have traveled the eastern 2/3 of the country and had truly insulting remarks laid on them for even mentioning the PITA or producing their average card and I don't see that in reverse. I know one fellow who tried to convince a handicapper in the mid-west that he was a A - 26 yard shooter in the PITA but the official threw the card back and put him in B - 22 yards based on his old ATA info. The contestant didn't sign up not wanting to violate the ATA rules.

    The most miserable part of the situation is that there are ol' timers that still want to hold a grudge against one association or the other and I've never gotten a real clear explanation from anyone that would make me stop supporting either. As BLKLAB says, white Flyers are White Flyers regardless of the letters on the program......breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  14. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    I believe that in PITA,the leadoff shooter in doubles gets to see a pair at each post, unlike the ATA. That would be a nice rule change for the ATA I.M.O..

    Jeff
     
  15. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    true on the doubles at each post.
     
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