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Are There Professional Trapshooters?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by smoking357, Jul 13, 2010.

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  1. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    I see Trapshooting as governed by the ATA, where 'A' = "Amateur." Is there any professional Trapshooting, and if one goes pro, how does the ATA know to yank his membership?
  2. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    crappy cast, reel fouled, it's an old hook, broken and bent. 2# test wouldn't

    hold the lunkers found around here anyway....

    But, to answer the question, no ATA trapshooters derive there annual income

    strictly from their competitive winnings......
  4. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    WTF is "cast?" I wasn't talking about stocks. It doesn't matter what percentage of income comes from Trap to be an amateur. It matters whether one is paid.

    Pro, as opposed to amateur. If everyone is an amateur, then just call the association the "American Trapshooting Association" and drop the "Amateur" business.

    From the USGA site:

    "The USGA writes and maintains the Rules of Amateur Status along with the R&A Rules Limited. An "amateur golfer" is one who plays the game as a non-remunerative and non-profit-making sport and who does not receive remuneration for teaching golf or for other activities because of golf skill or reputation, except as provided in the Rules."

    One can't be an amateur and join the PGA.

    From the USGA Rules:

    1-1. General

    An amateur golfer must play the game and conduct himself in accordance with the Rules.
    1-2. Amateur Status

    Amateur Status is a universal condition of eligibility for playing in golf competitions as an amateur golfer. A person who acts contrary to the Rules may forfeit his status as an amateur golfer and as a result will be ineligible to play in amateur competitions.

    1-3. Purpose and Spirit of the Rules

    The purpose and spirit of the Rules is to maintain the distinction between amateur golf and professional golf and to keep the amateur game as free as possible from the abuses that may follow from uncontrolled sponsorship and financial incentive. It is considered necessary to safeguard amateur golf, which is largely self-regulating with regard to the Rules of play and handicapping, so that it can be fully enjoyed by all amateur golfers.
    1-4. Doubt as to Rules

    A person who wishes to be an amateur golfer and who is in doubt as to whether taking a proposed course of action is permitted under the Rules should consult the USGA.

    An organizer or sponsor of an amateur golf competition or a competition involving amateur golfers who is in doubt as to whether a proposal is in accordance with the Rules should consult the USGA.

    2-1. General

    Except as provided in the Rules, an amateur golfer must not take any action for the purpose of becoming a professional golfer and must not identify himself as a professional golfer.

    Note 1: Actions by an amateur golfer for the purpose of becoming a professional golfer include, but are not limited to:

    (a) accepting the position of a professional golfer;

    (b) receiving services or payment, directly or indirectly, from a professional agent;

    (c) entering into a written or oral agreement, directly or indirectly, with a professional agent or sponsor; and

    (d) agreeing to accept payment or compensation, directly or indirectly, for allowing his name or likeness as a player of golf skill or reputation to be used for any commercial purpose.

    Note 2: An amateur golfer may inquire as to his likely prospects as a professional golfer, including applying unsuccessfully for the position of a professional golfer, and he may work in a professional's shop and receive payment or compensation, provided he does not infringe the Rules in any other way.

    2-2. Membership in Professional Golfers' Organizations

    a. Professional Golfers' Association

    An amateur golfer must not hold or retain membership in any Professional Golfers' Association.

    b. Professional Tours

    An amateur golfer must not hold or retain membership in a Professional Tour limited exclusively to professional golfers.

    Note: If an amateur golfer must compete in one or more qualifying competitions in order to be eligible for membership in a Professional Tour, he may enter and play in such qualifying competitions without forfeiting his Amateur Status, provided that, in advance of play and in writing, he waives his right to any prize money in the competition.
  5. rooferbob

    rooferbob Active Member

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    Oh way to guys now you've made it mad!
  6. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    He thought he was posting on a golf forum!! lol

    "amateurism by the 1990s was a concept of diminished importance and one more of technical than moral distinction. " J. Lucas, The Modern Olympic Games (1980).

    The only concern is if you plan on shooting Olympic competition. Then you must conform to their interpretation of the rules. Then it probably falls under this.

    "The Amateur Sports Act of 1978 (36 U.S.C.A. ยง 391) created the Athletic Congress, a national governing body for amateur athletes, which administers a trust fund that allows amateur athletes to receive funds and sponsorship payments without losing their amateur status"
  7. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    Hey, Perazzi, it's polite to note whether what you're about to say had been previously addressed. You're ignoring material that already responds to what you're writing.

    Of course, if you're merely trying to press a failing argument with persistence, then I understand the dishonest tactic.
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Leo won $30,000 at Ohio in one week last year. Add up his yearly winnings and it's much more than most working stiffs will make. Of course you have to deduct his expenses! Trailer, entry fees, fuel, and dependants.
  9. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Duh........!!!

    Curt
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Active Member

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    Something not being taken into consideration here,

    "Add up his yearly winnings and it's much more than most working stiffs will make."

    Leo isn't exactly just some working stiff if you think so what does that make you in the trap scheme of things?????

    I haven't seen anything in the amateur rule that are being thrown around here that tells us what the criteria is to be a Pro is it your average or handicap or what.

    In other sports it is the dues or your average or how many points you have accumulated so in golf just what makes you qualified to be an amateur as a opposed to being a Pro??????

    Bob Lawless
  11. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    Bass Fisherman og on Tour in a PRO circuit. Trap doesn't have a Pro circuit that I know of. Also,via other posts,that would be the easiest way to create a Pro Class. Have a Pro circuit they'd have to participate in,eliminates all the chatter about yardage as far as I'm concerned.Heck,I shoot for enjoyment anyway,bring on the yardage,still recoils they same.


    Doug H.
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, Gee, Toker, I was just kidding you. Why you would even consider the USGA and the ATA to have anything in common is beyond me.
  13. smsnyder

    smsnyder Active Member

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    Leo is a pro shooter. He wins money,teach the sport and gets indorsments. He also is considered a pro by the IRS. Don.t you believe that he deducts his expenses on his taxes?
  14. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    So, snyder, that's the definition of a professional by the IRS?..

    Please link me to that page, I need to see if I qualify....
  15. bridgetoofar

    bridgetoofar TS Member

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    Heavier leaders needed.
  16. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    Here's the problem with carelessly using "amateur." Words elucidate concepts. Concepts are discrete, separating something from the larger. Concepts tell us what is and is not the thing being discussed. If all Trapshooters are "amateurs," then the adjective loses its power to define and becomes mere surplusage. If there cannot be a non-amateur, then there cannot be an amateur. Something has to exist outside the concept in order for the concept to have a logical existence.
  17. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    If you play softball, and get paid cash or based on winning, are you a professional? Is trap different?
  18. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Active Member

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    If somebody lets out a silent scream, is it still a scream?
  19. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    No.....There are no professional trapshooters in the ATA, because it is not defined in the organization. On the other hand, the USGA has defined the difference between a pro and an armature, and that is why there is the PGA. If you want a pro category for trapshooters, why not start your own league, or organization, and try to get the ATA to recognize it?

    Wayne
  20. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    Wayne, there are pro trapshooters in the ATA, whether or not they're classified as such by the ATA. Indeed, the ATA has no reason to start kicking the pros out, as they lose those dues and maybe the sanctioning fees.

    Why not just call it the USTA and have pro and amateur divisions? In fact, two other USTAs, the US Trotting Association and the US Tennis Association, have pro and amateur classifications. This classification is normal. Just as golf courses have a golf pro, gun clubs can have guys around who've earned their pro card.

    As for that other guy who complained about comparing the ATA to the USGA, what's the issue? They're both sporting associations. What's so unique about Trap competitions that obviates comparisons to other sports?
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