1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Are stray pellets good?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by g7777777, Oct 21, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,354
    If you are shooting international skeet from station 8 yes they are good- othewise no- they tend to go way out --

    more people will comment I am sure

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  2. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    While at first glance it may appear that "stray pellets" are good, this is probably only true for close in targets such as skeet, and then only to a small degree. You must remember that every pellet lost from the main pattern will inrease the gaps/holes in that pattern, and will thus increase the chances for a target to escape through the resultant holes. Studies of light loads in 12 gauge (both 7/8 and 3/4 ounce loadings) show that the pattern of the lighter loads is actually somewhat "tighter" than that of heavier loads, particularly at longer ranges. Often these studies recommend use of a more open than normal choke for such loads, at least at shorter ranges. The reason for this is apparently that the shorter shot column within the shell actually results in less shot deformation during firing, thus has fewer "flyers" in the shot pattern. While having some "flyers" in the shot pattern may occasionally result in a broken target which was outside of the main pattern, it is most likely that the reduced density of the main shot pattern will result in more losses than are gained by the occasional flyer hit. The best way to ensure target hits is a good dense pattern at the desired range, and good centering/pointing of the shotgun, not by hoping for a lucky hit by a flyer. Just my opinion of course, but based on many recent studies of shotgun ballistics.
     
  3. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Piddy Bait
     
  4. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,474
    If you pattern a shell with high quality shot and a shell with cheap shot you see more flyers from the cheap shot. Many of these flyers are so scattered from your main pattern that they do you no good at all. That is why super hard tungsten shot patterns so good. Fewer flyers. You want a pattern with a good even distribution of pellets if you can get it. It maximizes the effectiveness of your pattern.
     
  5. AJ100

    AJ100 TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,575
    I hate those stray pellets. It's a b*tch picking them up off the floor every time I spill some.

    Tom(AJ100)
     
  6. sammyd95

    sammyd95 TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    358
    I cut the wad fingers length wise so there are 8 instead of four,,doesnt sem to hurt anything !
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,848
    Jimrich, could you make more clear what you mean by:

    " Studies of light loads in 12 gauge (both 7/8 and 3/4 ounce loadings) show that the pattern of the lighter loads is actually somewhat "tighter" than that of heavier loads, particularly at longer ranges. "

    Are you talking about a higher percentage of what's in the shell to start with? Or more concentrated in the center? Or more actual pellets?

    . . . and did you get this from that September Shotgun Sports, by the way?

    Neil
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Ain't all of them strays except the few hitting the clay? Fliers far outside the (strays) are sorta like tits on a boar hog, there but useless. :) Hap
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,357
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    What Hap said.

    If you depend on Lady Luck, don't forget Lady Luck is NO lady! LOL
     
  10. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,753
    If that idea came from Shotgun Sports it just reinforces my past decision to let that subscription expire. From my limited experience I don't get tighter patterns with lighter loads, only more holes in the same size pattern. Stray pellets are never good. The object is to eliminate them.
     
  11. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    Neil:

    Some of the information I referred to was contained in a Shotgun News article. Some is from other ballistics studies of shotshells. As I understand the ballistics, what I was referring to was an increase in the number of pellets in the main pattern (i.e, fewer flyers) in the lighter 12 gauge loads. This is basically caused by a a "shorter shot column" within the shell thus causing less shot deformation in the firing process. Hence fewer flyers. With fewer flyers the main shot pattern is somewhat denser, hence the recommendation for some situations (primarily only valid in short range targets) in using a slightly more open choke. This, in my opinion, is likely to be somehat situational dependent, as well as dependent on individual guns, chokes, etc. Every gun and choke seems to pretty much be a law unto itself in regards to
    patterns, densitys, and other factors.


    Jim R
     
  12. ink ball

    ink ball Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2007
    Messages:
    219
    Although stray pellets might, at first glance, seem like they might give you a lucky break now and then, the problem in that logic is assuming that single pellet strkies will break a target. Most generally, they won't. You might get 'dust' with a single pellet strike, but seldom a visible piece. Any pellet not in the swarm with the rest of the pellets is for the most part, a wasted pellet.
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Neil- I am confident the unsupported, and in my opinion, clearly incorrect opinions published in the September Shotgun Sports will be around for many years. I did also notice that Jim finished his post with a quote from Don Zuts (every gun is a law into itself). I can't think of another gun writer who published so many incorrect things about shotgun shooting than Zuts.

    Incorrect material does not suddenly become correct simply because it gets published.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,848
    Pat, I agree completely and plan to spend some time in a day or two to closely examine that article in a post here on TS.com. It's amazing to me that people would accept it at all - there are plenty of warnings in the article itself, after all, that it's not ballistics; it's just story-telling.

    Neil
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

what causes hole and flyers in a shotgun pattern