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Anyone reloaded Rio Papers?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DecalDude, Nov 30, 2009.

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  1. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    I have been seeing these Rio Paper hulls now since the winter league started. Yesterday league was at our club so I helped the kids pick hulls(mainly because my supply was low) but we came across these rio papers and I had seen them at a few other clubs on the ground.

    Has anyone reloaded any? Are they comprable as Federals?

    Thanks Jerry
     
  2. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, I have no first-hand experience with Rio hulls but a reader of mine asked for loading data for them a few months ago, so I put out a feeler in my column and learned this much.

    First off, they are two-piece hulls and apparently exhibit basewad migration. One reader emailed me a photo of several cutaway hulls with loose or missing basewads. He referred to them as "euro-trash hulls."

    Next, another reader told me that Rio primers are larger than most other 209s and accordingly, the primer pockets in Rio hulls will not reliably hold standard-sized primers in place. He also told me that he was able to seat Fiocchi 616 primers into Rio hulls with finger pressure and that they stayed put through normal handling, but I'm not too sure I'd want to shoot shells with "finger-tight" primers.

    Finally, that same reader sent me an email reply from Alliant Powder Company to his request for loading data in which Alliant states that they do not publish loading data for Rio hulls because you almost have to use Rio primers in them and the brisance of Rio primers varies a great deal. The variance is within SAMMI standards but is much too wide for the powder company to risk publishing data for them. In fact, I was unable to find any data for Rio hulls at all although another reader told me that he knew shooters who had used Federal loading data with them and still have all their body parts.

    In summary, do with them what their original owner did - throw them away.

    Ed
     
  3. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I had some Rio primers and once fired Rio papers so reloaded a few (very low pressure data for a Cheddite hull). Not worth the trouble for 1 and toss hulls. These hulls come apart badly after one reload.

    Save yourself the trouble and leave them on the ground.

    ss
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The RIO papers that I shot all came out of the gun with lots of pin holes at the front edge of the metal head. No way would I consider reloading them.
     
  5. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    They are not real prime beef, but with a couple of caveats, they reload just fine and perform well.

    - I never had one separate, but they are pretty flimsy and I wouldn't trust them to an automatic or pump.

    - RIO or Wolf or PMC primers fit better.

    - Inspect them for pinholes first.

    - A 'cone' precrimp-starter is the way to go; the old crimp indexes poorly.

    - one-and-done

    Unless you're a pretty relaxed personality, have a lot of them, and don't mind the slightly different mindset required to load any paper hull, they are prolly not worth the effort for a one-and-done hull.


    Bob
     
  6. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I load the Diana/Rio paper hull. My load is, Rio primer, 25 gr Solo 1250, (or the same amount of Unique), Windjammer wad, and 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2. This load is a Martian Death Ray when combined with an Invector Plus Angleport XF choke from the back fence. It gets to the target very quickly, and turns a solid into a vapor.

    Recoil is soft, especially with Solo 1250, and, like many imports, the hulls are a load-once deal. Check hulls for damage before you load. Since they are free for the taking, they are worth a little trouble. The only change to my dedicated Caps loading 9000 Mec is the paper (smooth) crimp starter. Bob has it right, but I have a backup 1100 Remmy old style Trap gun that is a Cosmic Avenger with this load in the back yard.

    They have the same base wad as the Rio/Kemen/Diana plastics. These hulls can deliver good performance. All hulls should be inspected before loading.

    The Rio primer always goes bang, even when it is too cold (for me) to shoot. Alliant does indeed have data for the Rio primer. The Cheddite is a dead ringer for the UEE hull.
     
  7. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Coach, dammnit, quit telling folks abt how good Eurotrash hulls are - you're going to boost my hull cost from $0.00 .... ssshhhhhh!


    Bob
     
  8. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Euro Trash Hulls are great. Have loaded probably 75k+ of them over the years without problems. Have not loaded many of the paper variety though. Have always used a larger primer such as the Noble Sport. Data is available from a number of sources. I mostly load once and toss because they are so plentiful however I have been loading some Noble Sport Trap hulls recently and have found that they can go to 4-5 reloads without problems. I believe they are just as good as the new AA two piece. The nice thing is that Noble Sport supplied data and wads.

    TB
     
  9. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    thanks and well I guess for as many as I have I wont mess with them as snow is expected here soon and dry hulls will be hard to come by. I better stock up on gun clubs or something.

    Jerry
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I'd certainly load them....Right into the trash bin. Not worth the effort to reload, considering the poor construction of these hulls. They don't compare with the "old" Federal Papers, which were not too bad. There are a host of other free hulls that would be more suitable for reloading. You might even find something that you can get data for, like Gun Clubs.
     
  11. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    About the only free once-fired hulls around here are Fed promos, Diana, Rios, and Nobels. Works for me.

    Even the Remmy promos found on the Sporting field have been loaded to death. The secret is out about cheap Remmy hulls.

    Eurotrash hulls are universally free. I have been given many target boxes of sorted Eurotrash hulls by SCTP and AIM teams. If you think I won't load them, hide and watch. My Caps load with the Diana paper, Solo 1250 powder, Windjammer wad and Rio primer perform as well and hit as hard as anything I have ever shot.

    If bulky flake powders and wads made for straight walled hulls are used with the correct primers, they perform as well as anything.

    You guys keep on loading STS and AA, and dumping everything else. I am right behind you with a bag.

    Sorry for spilling the beans, Bob. LOL
     
  12. mojet

    mojet TS Member

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    I love to shoot Rio papers on the first shot of doubles.
    Larry Moses
     
  13. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    RIO papers:

    RIO primer - 20.0grs.Green Dot - Claybuster 12S3 replacement wad - 1 1/8th. oz.

    Same load for RIO, Diana and PMC plastics.

    I like the six point crimp also.

    Just for information - NOT RECOMMENDED. I put these thru a M12 with no problem.

    Wayne
     
  14. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Wayne has a VERY soft shooting, but terrific load! The Eurotrash plastics load well.

    I kinda like the six point crimp too.
     
  15. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    Just a tip to try for you guys using the Rio plastic cases and having trouble getting Rio primers. Knock out the Rio primer first, then run the Rio plastic hulls thru a Mec Super Sizer, and I think you will find the Cheddite primers, which are usually available, are a tight fit in the primer pocket. Takes more than "finger pressure" to get them in.
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have not reloaded Rio hulls. I judge a reload and factory shells by measuring the consistency in velocity and chamber pressure at a couple of different temperatures. Based on these measurements, I do hope that the Rio reloads are better than the Rio factory shells.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <i>"Just a tip to try for you guys using the Rio plastic cases and having trouble getting Rio primers. Knock out the Rio primer first, then run the Rio plastic hulls thru a Mec Super Sizer, and I think you will find the Cheddite primers, which are usually available, are a tight fit in the primer pocket. Takes more than "finger pressure" to get them in."</I>

    Grab a 100 Cheddites and 100 Fiocchis and sit down and mic them and you'll find that they are exactly the same size: .243" at the largest diameter; and the Fiocchis are straight, the Cheddites are tapered. They can't help but fit the same; if anything the Fiocchi will start harder. The Rios mic at .245 or there abouts; you must have weak fingers.

    MK
     
  18. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    MK

    I believe AveragEd said the Rio primers were larger than a 209 and that another poster said he could seat Fiocchi's using finger pressure. Whether you are standing up or sitting down using a mic on Cheddites or Fiocchi primers probably won't make the primer hole in the hull any smaller. In my experience, running the hulls thru a Mec Super sizer, after removing the original primer, will cause both the Cheddite and Fiocchi primers be condsiderably more than finger tight in the hull.

    Thanks for confirming that the Rio primers are larger in diameter than both the Cheddite and Fiocchi primers.
     
  19. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I guess we have our super sizers adjusted differently. Mine has just never been strong enough to shrink any empty primer pocket by several thousandths of an inch, Rio, Remington or any other. You got one heck of a sizer there!!

    As to the fact that Rio primers are larger than other 209 primers, that's no secret. Anyone who has tried to stuff them into Remington hulls knows that it requires committment.

    MK
     
  20. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    Maybe I do have one heck of a sizer, but I doubt that. I do know that after I run the Blue Plastic Rio target hulls thru my Super Sizer, after I have removed the original primer, the primer hole in the hull consistently measures .238 with two different digital micrometers I have. That makes a nice snug fit on the Cheddite primers. I do not have and have never used Fiocchi or Rio primers, I don't have anything against either primer I just don't have any, so I am not doubting your word about the diameter.

    I actually load and use Remington gun clubs STS hulls with Remington 209PSTS primers.

    I did load 4 boxes of the Rio blue target hulls just to see how they loaded, because they are quite abundant. I did the same thing with the Winchester Universal hulls, which in another hull that seems to usually hit the trash pile without being reloaded. I did not encounter any problems loading either of them with my loader,and they both actually crimp very good, and if someone was loading my gun for me I would not be able to tell them from my other target loads.
     
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