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Anyone Have Dealings with the Person

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by esetter, Dec 17, 2011.

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  1. esetter

    esetter Active Member

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    I just had a very bad and costly experience with the person that lists guns as GATOMANN. Was wondering if anyone else has had problems with him? He lists a lot of guns especially Parker Reproductions on some other sites. Just wondering if I'm the only person that has had trouble with him.


    He advertised a gun as a Winchester Model 21 "Baby Frame 28GA" new and unfired. Called him and went over the gun with him and he said it was 100% perfect condition and on the baby frame. When it arrived I opened it up to find the stock had a bunch of scratches so I got my camera, took pictures and called him. All of this was within 5 minutes of receiving the gun. Gun was well packaged in a Winchester hard case, nothing that could have scratched the gun. I called him and he said it wasn't like that when shipped but he would have it repaired. I reluctantly agreed to that and then I put the gun together and it felt heavy. Put it next to my 20Ga 21 and it was exactly the same size. Weighed it and it was 1 ounce lighter than my 20GA. Called my friend that owns a 21 baby frame and he measured and weighed it for me and his was 1 pound 15 ounces lighter than my gun. His barrels were shorter but that wouldn't account for 2 pounds. Called Galazan and they looked it up and low and behold it was a standard frame 28GA, not a Baby frame. By the way, the baby frame from Connecticut Shotgun is an $8000 option so you can see that makes a tremendous difference in the cost of the gun and the resale value. I called Gatomann back and told him I would be returning the gun because it wasn't what he had advertised. He again said it was a baby frame and I told him to call Galazan which he did. He found out it was a standard frame and then agreed to take the gun back. He had me ship it to his stock man for repairs to the stock which I did. I ask him when I would get my money back and he said I'm hunting it will be sometime after Christmas. When I told him that wasn't good enough I shouldn't have to wait he finally agreed to send it after the gun arrived at the stock man. I told him I expected the shipping to be paid by him since the gun wasn't at all what he advertised and he didn't say anything. I received the check yesterday and it was for the amount of the gun, minus the $220 shipping. So I was out several days time and $220. To my way of thinking he made the mistake, I should not have to pay for his mistake. Here is a picture of some of the scratches on the 100% perfect stock.

    <a href="http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Model%2021%20scratches/?action=view&current=3bf63950.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Here is a copy of his listing:
    GI#: 100215519
    SKU#: 1234
    Title: WINCHESTER MODEL 21 BABY FRAME 28 GA.
    Description: WINCHESTER 21 SMALL FRAME 28 GA. EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIG., 30"BARRELS, F/M , CIRCASSIAN WOOD , WINCHESTER LEATHER CASE W/COVER , NEWUNFIRED,

    Price: $15,000.00
     
  2. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    No picture(s) came up...

    I'd say with money like that, you need to possibly have AT LEAST a 3-day right of inspection.

    I'd also possibly to through a bank to do the deal. My banker would accept the gun and in exchange for me taking delivery, he's send the money order or wire transfer AFTER I was acdcepting of the deal. Possibly a title company could do this for you as well.

    IMHO.

    WW
     
  3. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    If you received a refund of $15,000.00 you are DARN LUCKY> Be Happy!!!
     
  4. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

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    I had a deal similar to yours last spring regarding a rare 22 rifle. Although I ended up coming out alright on the deal your lucky you got your money back. The lesson I learned when your investing in high dollar collectible guns or anything. Be face to face with the seller or you better be sure he's reputable.

    And yes In my opinion he should pay you the $220.00. Good luck with that.
     
  5. Russ-in-Pa

    Russ-in-Pa Well-Known Member

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    I may be way out of line here, but for that kind of money, I would want to see the gun in person before agreeing to buy it.
     
  6. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    He may be lucky but he deserves all of it. He lived up to his deal and the seller did not & in fact it appears he was being deceptive
     
  7. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that ain't a 100% perfect stock. In fact it is far from it. Seems like the stock condition was misrepresented. That point is aside from the fact it was not a "Baby Frame". Should be a full refund.
     
  8. esetter

    esetter Active Member

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    If you search Gatomann on GunsInternational you will see he lists a ton of guns. I trusted him because I have seen his listings for a long time and know he is a large dealer. My mistake. Hard to do a face to face when he is in California and I'm in Ohio. I ask all the right questions including, "is it a baby frame" and with the gun in your hands do you find any marks on the stock at all, answer none!
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"If you were interested enough to pay $15,000.00~~A plane ticket seemsto be in order !!!"</i>

    That or hire a local gun dealer to inspect the gun.
     
  10. esetter

    esetter Active Member

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    Who is to know a local gun dealer isn't his best friend. I deal fairly with people and expect the same. I was assured I had a three day inspection period. I did what I could short of flying to California and that is just more than I wanted to do. I got burnt by him and that won't happen again, at least with him. I can honestly say this is the first time I have been burnt in all of my internet dealings so I guess I should consider myself lucky, and on the flip side I've met an lot of very nice people and made some great friends.
     
  11. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Sure "sounds" like he was trying to pull a fast one, -----and shot himself in the foot at least as far as selling anything to any regulars here on T.S. Ross Puls
     
  12. Boxbirder

    Boxbirder Member

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    Many guys don't realize the web has made collecting nice. You gotta take the good with the bad when dealing with bespokes. Since it wasn't as described he owes you the shipping. Not long ago I did a deal with a dealer out of MO, that 21 came to my local dealer and was beat to hell and loose as a goose. It was described as normal wear. He refunded my funds in short order no questions asked "He knew that Duck 21 was beat to hell", but then held back 75 for the shipping.

    Look at it this way, 220 is nothing in the grand sceme of things, it's just not the way you would do business, you know he sucks as a seller now, between here and doublegunshop will give him a good tap on the nose.
    Best
     
  13. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    I would be glad to just get the 15000.00 back. Shipping is usually buyer pays both ways if returning a gun unless other arrangements are made.
     
  14. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Old One Eye, I would agree with your statement except, esetter has paid dear to educate this seller in what he said he had and what he actually had for sale! I don't think esetter agreed to educate this guy at all and he owes him his money back, period!

    Hap
     
  15. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Esetter:

    It's a rough break that you got cheated out of your $220 but, if you think about it, this deal could have turned out a LOT worse for you. He could have balked outright and you'd have spent thousands in legal fees trying to get your money back.

    -Gary
     
  16. esetter

    esetter Active Member

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    Once again, if the gun was the model it was advertised to be and I just didn't like the wood or the engraving I would have had no problem paying the shipping. I was even willing to accept the numerous scratches on the stock, but it was the fact that it was a completely different gun than advertised. Think of it this way, you order your dream car, a cadillac, and it comes in as a Chevrolet and the dealer says I'll take it back but you have to pay the transportation charges for bringing the wrong car here. Some people say I should feel lucky I didn't lose $15,000, I say I was cheated out of $220. I don't feel lucky at all.
     
  17. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    You certainly WERE cheated out of $220. You were also lucky it wasn't worse.

    Haven't you ever had to pay an attorney in a legal dispute?

    -Gary
     
  18. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    You were lucky that you weren't more unlucky. You got hosed, plain and simple but I don't know how you could have prevented it due to the travel distance.

    Even if you knew someone you could trust in California, they probably wouldn't know enough about Model 21's to discover the frame difference.

    The risk of internet sales!
     
  19. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Active Member

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    No offense, but are you crazy buying something for 15 G sight unseen?

    For that kind of $$$ I'd hop on a plane.
     
  20. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    15 grand sight unseen? Happens many times every day. Where you been? Esetter is 100 per cent in the right and should be reimbursted for the freight. Gun was not what he bought by a stretch. I would not take this sellers word on what he thinks he has in the future. Easy to say be happy if it isn't your $220. Bill
     
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