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Anyone had problems with Savage CF Rifles??? SOLD

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by halfmile, Jul 17, 2012.

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  1. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I have seen it several times, but only accompanied by a pierced primer and a hot charge. I have only seen one ejector rod failure, and this was with a VERY high pressure load that melted a channel in the brass and completely obliterated the primer.

    If you have more ammo from the same box don't get rid of it.

    No one on the Savage forum has mentioned this, so my only comment is that this is very unusual. It is common for Savage guys to use a 9/64 ball rather than the 1/8 that is standard.

    You should start by calling Savage customer service.

    HM
     
  2. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    You never said what the brass looked like which tells volumes about what happened.


    jim brown
     
  3. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Or the primer??
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    We carry extra balls when we shoot prairie dogs. My pal Tom has had to grovel to find his extractor a few times. He is up there with his load, and when a primer pierces, the pressure takes the extractor out of the slot.

    If he does not open the bolt carefully the extractor goes on the ground hence the groveling.

    FYI there is absolutely NO way pressure can get in the area behind the case except through the primer hole. During firing the brass expands to grip the case walls. In some cases high pressure makes for difficult extraction.

    I would be very interested in examining this case, and sawing it in half lengthwise to see the thickness of the walls by the head area. What did the primer look like?

    I have to admit wonder at shotgunners who are very anal about 11K PSI and then shoot 58,000 PSI rifles without a thought.

    So to sum up, there is nothing unusual about blowing an extractor, but your ejector pin blowing back is more serious.

    Please do not fire any more of that ammo, and send a couple to Savage along with the gun and your story. Tell them the brand, etc and the lot number.

    HM
     
  5. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    There are issues when shooting 7.62X51 ammo in rifles chambered for 308. First the pressure standards are not the same for military and civilian ammo. Second the headspace standard is not the same for these rounds. Finally you have no idea what conditions military ammo has been subjected to. I realize many people interchange these rounds with no problems but there is no guarantee. I really doubt that Savage will stand behind a rifle that was used with ammo other than that for which it was intended. For your sake I hope I am wrong.


    jim brown
     
  6. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    First off this is not the same rifle Savage has built their reputation on. This is a cheap rifle built to a price point. IMO

    My gunsmith has had several of these in his shop with the same problem, some on the first shot all with factory ammo with no pressure signs. The problem is the design of the extractor, same one as on the Mossberg rifle. The replacements he has received lately were a little oversized and fitting them tight as possible seems to help. No offense but personally I'd take HR/NEF single shot over either of them.
     
  7. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Same thing happened to my friend shooting a new 243. Had it repaired, sold it and moved on to a Remington, never looked back.

    Robert
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    You might have the same problem using 5.56 military in a civilian rifle.

    There are 3 different chamberings of 5.56 out there. M-16 stuff is not reccomended for civilian 223's, and there are obvious pressure differences as well as chamber length.

    If you use civilian ammo or reloads from the Powder mfr's data you should have no problem. I admit the extractor ball is a weak point. However I have only had 1 blowout which was my fault (powder substitution).

    Going to the 9/64 ball is a good idea and I am going to get some. In the meantime, anyone who wants a 1/8 ball free can have one by sending me a SASE.

    HM
     
  9. oz

    oz Active Member

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    5.56 in .223 is a definite NO NO....
    7.62 & .308 is OK.
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    From the Savage FAQ page:

    <i>"Savage Arms does not recommend the use of any military surplus ammunition. As stated in the owner's manuals, you should only shoot the caliber that is stamped on the side of your barrel."</i>

    While this statement makes sense for 5.56x45 not to be fired in a .223 Rem chamber, it's just the opposite for the larger cartridge.

    SOMETIMES 308 fired in a 7.62x51 chamber can cause problems due to headspace and leade issues and the thinner case walls.

    In theory, there should be no problem with 7.62x51 ammo being fired in a 308 chamber. Indeed, a lot of people do this and have no problem. But, the fact is, some DO have problems. I did a quick google search for <i>7.62 in 308 savage</i> and see numerous entries where people have had sticky bolts, pierced primers, etc.

    I've shot 308 and 7.62 in my FN FAL for many years. It was stamped ".308 MATCH" for chambering, whatever that's supposed to mean. It's a military chamber. And I have an adjustable gas system. I set it up for 308 for hunting, and just shoot 7.62 at the same setting.

    I set my son up a decade ago with an old Remington 788 in 308. A lot of 7.62 ammo has gone through this rifle.

    I was interested in a Savage Hog Hunter in 308, but if there is an issue with 7.62, it gives one pause. Checking their website, NONE of the tactical police models are made in 5.56 or 7.62. They're all made in 223 or 308. I find it hard to believe that police departments are not using military ammo in many of these guns, especially Lake City match.

    BTW, there is a false comparison going around that says that 7.62x51 has a pressure of 50,000 to 52,000 (M118) vs 62,000 PSI for the 308. This is a FALSE comparison because the units used are different. The military no longer uses the old method of CUP, but still publishes it as such. When using the same PSI rating 7.62 has a pressure of 60,190 to 62,000 PSI, so pressure between the 7.62 and 308 are pretty darn close.

    Also, there is no warning from SAAMI on interchanging 7.62x51 and 308 Win ammo, at least not the last time I looked.

    So, why did your rifle have problems? I don't know. Let's see what Savage says. It would also be interesting to see what 308 and 7.62 go/no go gage sets say about your chamber.
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    It boils down to pressure where it shouldn't be. A lot of pressure if it smoked the ejector pin.

    More than a pierced primer would do in mine, usually that just moves the extractor, which falls out when you open the bolt.

    Groveling then ensues.

    So........What's the primer/case look like?

    HM
     
  12. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    Groveling in the dirt for lost parts is a no brainer-don't you think?

    I once HAD a rifle marked 'savage' on the barrel. It spit out it's extractor because... well I don't care why actually. It left me stranded. The End.
     
  13. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    TinMan, have you found one that you can't blow up?


    jim brown
     
  14. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Try blowing up a type 38 Arisaki action.
     
  15. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    I had some major brand top velocity ammo that my M700 didn't care for, nor did I. And bad accuracy.

    80 rounds. I pulled the bullets in most of a box, and downloaded the powder, I think about a couple grains.

    It provided a smoother load and better accuracy, but nothing to write home about. But, it didn't offend the gun, or me.
     
  16. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Toolmaker, you go ahead, I don't think I care to go with you.


    jim. brown
     
  17. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Jim Brown, no need to try blowing a type 38 up, the US arsenal couldn't. They exceeded 150,000 psi and split installed heavy barrels on this action, but no damage to the receiver. Read general Hatcher's arsenal tests.
     
  18. oz

    oz Active Member

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    I have a savage .308 hog hunter hav e only shot couple of 100 rounds. seems fine. put a scope on it right away.
     
  19. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    Jim Brown, I elected to only consider firearms whose parts would not fall off. The rifle in question was a good one. It is a design flaw.
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Oz, how about some pics and accuracy reports of your Hog Hunter?
     
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