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Any news on Butler Arms?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by flyfish, May 24, 2013.

  1. flyfish

    flyfish Member

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    Any news on Butler Arms? They had a two-page advertisement and a feature story in either Clay Shooting USA or Trap Shooting USA this month. One of my buddies has been trying to contact them - no luck.
     
  2. trim tab

    trim tab Active Member

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    Was told tht they are on the George Washington Program. PART OF HISTORY!!

    They are looking for new capital
     
  3. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    My understanding is they are done...at least for now. They might well be looking for fresh money to get rolling again, cannot speak to that.

    I do know they let the staff go, as Jason contacted me right when that came down. I had been working with him for a year, but never saw evidence they were getting it together, and conflicting stories on a shell catcher for it.

    I shot the gun, thought it was great. Maybe a tad big pricey for an auto, but fuzz, I would think nothing of dropping 15K on a SBT so I guess not really out of the question.

    I bought a Devault 391 conversion, and while having 2 other 391's, and a 390, I can tell you the Devault conversion is a sweet machine for an auto shuck-er. And it has a shell catcher....LOL.
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I hear that the ones that were delivered are going to be worth a lot of money because of the limited production ... This is of course just a rumor started by the folks that are related to the big brother of the sister's counsin, third removed ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  5. shotgunner

    shotgunner Member

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    Bob Schultz said he had them in hand ready to Demo a month ago....what happened ?
     
  6. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Yep, I said that all right! OOPS. I still believe a good sales pitch... Scott Edwards, the Butler sales rep, delivered a gun to me and let me use the demo for a while with the assurance that more guns were to follow. Shortly thereafter, the bottom fell out of the Butler Arms Co. I was fooled by the fancy trailers and advertizing they were doing.

    Good news is I didn't pay for the gun and did not sell any. It all happened within a week or so. I would have hated to sell a gun to a customer and not be able to provide proper warranty service and parts.

    My best guess is the parent corporation which funded Butler decided they had spent enough money and were not getting nearly enough sales to justify the expense. One would have to sell a ton of guns to support 2 on the road sales people and an office staff!

    They have not returned my calls or emails to date so I am going to work under the premiss they are out of business.

    Thank you for reading my tome,

    Shoot well,

    Bob Schultz, Target Shotguns, Inc. 800-684-6329
     
  7. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    Thanks, Bob.
     
  8. PULL PULL

    PULL PULL Member

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    If Butler Arms would come back to the market, and retail there gun for around $2800.00. I think they could sell a few hundred guns every year.
     
  9. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    If they came back with the gun at $3999.00 SRP and it looked like they were here to stick around, I suspect they could sell several hundred annually. Certainly easier to amortize mfg costs over hundreds and not a couple of dozen.

    I really liked the shooter, just was concerned about long term parts and service. It is a bit more complicated than a SBT or combo unit.
     
  10. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I think $2800 or $3999 would both be fairly optimistic. The Fabarm XLR5 has most if not all of the same features @ $2500, and isn't exactly flying off the shelves.

    Face it, when you can get a Devault 391 with custom fit wood and adjustable rib brand new for $3k, everything else is second best.
     
  11. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Skeetman,

    I beg to differ...we sell between 18 and 20 Fabarm autos every month! Both the Long Rib non adjustable and the XLR5 Adjustable versions sell well for us. If you look at the construction of the Fabarm, it'll be shooting long after you have replaced the receiver in the Beretta a couple of times! Built like a target gun and not like a hunting gun.

    Just my opinion,

    Bob Schultz
     
  12. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. I'm just not seeing them out there yet I guess. Except for the one I briefly handled @ the OH State trapshoot last year, I've not seen another one in person or in pictures online of someone shooting one.
     
  13. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    My 391 just had it's 8th birthday this month. About 100,000 rounds, $150 in parts replaced (by me) I can't remember the last time it didn't feed a shell. I clean it three times a year, whether it needs it or not.

    Maybe the Velocity will be around when my 391 is a pile of junk, but you said that about the Butler, too.
     
  14. shaggist

    shaggist Member

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    I need to remind y'all of the quality of another gas-operated auto that has few, if any, problems-the WINCHESTER SUPER X-1. It is easy to clean, although it isn't necessary every time you shoot it, unless you just like to keep your guns in perfect condition. I don't think you can wear one out, and it has never failed to feed/eject in my last 10,000 rounds. There are no plastic/alloy parts, it being all steel and walnut. They are not being made anymore, but the parts availability is excellent from a variety of sources, if you need something(I haven't yet). It is an superbly handling gun, balancing well between your hands, and has the weight to properly swing for left and right birds. For the money spent, I don't believe you can buy a better auto trap gun. YMMD.
    Jack
     
  15. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Somebody will buy the design (patens if there are any) and tooling, sooner or later. Good designs never just go away. And from what I've heard it's a great design.
     
  16. motordoctor

    motordoctor Shoji Tabuchi in Branson

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    Friend bought one and it would not feed properly and sent it back. Got his money refunded. Gun a bit front heavy. I would love to have one but hate to not be able to get parts. Also it needs abetter mechanism to unset the release trigger. Motor doc
     
  17. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    It would be great if their trigger design could be made to work in other auto loaders. I've got a gut feeling, the down payments if not refunded, could result in criminal prosecution.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  18. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I put close to 200,000 rounds on my first 391 and sold it to a buddy and it still doesn't miss a beat. I broke a hammer brace and a piston in that gun, that's it! Only time will tell if the Fab will hold up and only time, so to say that it's a superior auto at this point is pure speculation and conjecture.

    That said, I feel that the Butler was a cutting edge design and I would like to see it go back into production. It was designed from the ground up to be a target gun, not a field gun that would be modified for target use. I think that just because it's an auto, people expect it to be cheap and that's just something that's ingrained in us being that many have started out with an 1100.

    Just the way it is I guess.
     
  19. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    I posted the following a year and three months ago.


    "Subject: Butler Arms Unsingle Auto
    From: dickgtax
    Email:
    Date: Fri, Feb 24, 2012 - 11:27 AM ET
    Website Address:


    The issue here isn't whether or not the Butler is a great gun, or even if it's worth $ 7,500.
    It's a business decision. The initial investment to build the gun is substantial. Patent costs, marketing,distribution, etc. add to the cost.
    Where will the initial capital investment come from? Is the market large enough to support the product? Considering the economy and gas prices, is trapshooting a good market to get into?
    I think if these questions had been answered, they wouldn't still be shopping it around at all the big shoots. "


    What you can expect now is a voluntary or forced Chapter 7 initiated by the major lender, creditor or group of creditors; followed by a pre-arranged sale by the bankruptcy trustee to a new buyer. I believe there will be another attempt to manufacture the gun, possibly by a major gun manufacturer. If there are unreturned deposits, those people will join the other unsecured creditors, and probably lose their money. Without the past debt and with a bargain purchase of the materials, equipment, and inventory, the new manufacturer will be in a better position to be successful.


    This is how these situations usually end up.
     
  20. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    With all the established Trap Guns on the market, does it make good business sence to butt heads with them?