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Any mathematician on here?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by blkcloud, Mar 12, 2013.

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  1. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    I'm trying to calculate a distance..
    we have a pat trap on our practice range.. it is throwing to the stakes so im confident the speed is close to right..
    what I'm trying to figure out is.. when one of our kids calls pull and fires with in a second.. how far is the clay when its broken.. what about a second and a half.. and yes we have a couple of newcomers that are waiting 2 seconds before shooting.. we are using either 1145 or 1200 shells.. thanks!
     
  2. slayer

    slayer Well-Known Member

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    Set your trap for straight away from post three,then just stand way off to one side and watch where the breaks are and then just pace it off? Bill
     
  3. Surveyin'

    Surveyin' Member

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    Do you have any idea of the speed of the clay? Not difficult to calc if you know that.
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    If the clay is set correctly with a police type radar gun, it should be 41-43 mph.

    42 mph, is 61.6 fps.

    Wayne
     
  5. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    And what exactly is your purpose in knowing this?

    It just sounds to me as though the ones who are shooting slower are still trying to "measure" their shot. I.e., they're aiming; looking at the gun.

    That's what you want to stop. Telling them to shoot quicker won't do it.

    They need to be instructed to "see quicker." Part of that comes from having a gun that fits them, but the major part of it comes from being instructed that that is how it is done. You look at the target. Always at the target, never the gun.
     
  6. Surveyin'

    Surveyin' Member

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    OK, with 61.6 fps target and 1200 fps shell ... assuming only horizontal movement and not accounting for wind ... I get 64.9 ft for 1 sec delay, 97.4 ft for 1.5 sec delay, and 129.9 ft for 2 sec delay.
     
  7. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm 20,30 and 40 yds.....
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The velocity of the target decays as it flies (not constant) so the analyis can get fairly complicated. The better short answer is that a fast shooter will break the singles target when it is about 10 yards out of the house, a normal skilled shooter breaks them at about 15 yards. Young shooters are all over the place with how much time they allow the target to fly before firing and that is what you want to work on. Not necessarily getting them to shoot fast but try to build some consistency. But you don't want them to wait too long as the shot gets more difficult the farther the bird is away. Try to get some consistency in shooting at the target about 1 second after it is thrown.
     
  9. Surveyin'

    Surveyin' Member

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    Oops, I forgot to add the 16 yards from the gun to the trap house ... add about 2.5 ft to each distance above.
     
  10. Surveyin'

    Surveyin' Member

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    Oops, I forgot to add the 16 yards from the gun to the trap ... add about 2.5 ft to the above distances.

    Also, the distances are from the trap, not the gun.
     
  11. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Just my thoughts,--Now round those #s off ie 64.9 to 66ft divide by 3 and you get 22yds, that plus the original 16 = 38 yds to where the tgt is shot at, hit or miss, so for new shooters that's not too bad. Any longer and I think V10 has the right answer. Shooting quicker will come on it's own with practice ie again as per V10 learning hold points etc. and where--how & when to "look for" the tgt. Also THANKS for your time teaching the younger generation. Ross Puls
     
  12. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    After 1 second the clay would be appox. 36 yards from the shooter. Trying to figure anything out past that and you leave math and enter the world of calculus, stuff like "whats the negative acceleration of the clay?"

    In fact at 35 yards size 7-1/2 shot has slowed to 695 fps. from 1145. Things can get real complicated for no reason. Get in front of the bird, and pull the trigger.

    Wayne
     
  13. FNG

    FNG Member

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    This is a rather rough calculation which assumes 0 forward velocity when the target hits the ground (it still has some small amount of forward velocity, I just don't know what it would be), and a linear rate of deceleration (which it wouldn't have) However; d = (t)(r) d = t (V_orig. - V_final)/2 then:

    d = t (61.6'/sec - 0)/2 d = t(61.6)/2 d = t(30.8) then:

    At t = 1 sec d = 30.8' + 48" = 78.8'

    At t = 2 sec d = 61.6' + 48' = 109.6'

    At t = 3 sec d = 92.4' + 48' = 140.4'

    All final diatances would be from the 16yd line.
     
  14. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I wouldn't try it with math calculations. Figure it on the basis that the average shooter breaks their target at 30-32 yards from the 16. If first kid seems alittle slow probably 35-36, the slower 38-40 yds. Now I would say second youth is definetly aiming. I'd take his sites off to help elevate this. He needs to learn to point.

    Not sure if Iam understanding reasoning behind question. If I've miss interpreted, I apologize in advance.
     
  15. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    My reason..
    I would like to take kid "A" who shoots at say 1.3 seconds..
    figure out where he is breaking the bird.. say..32 yards.. then..
    be able to put his gun on paper with different chokes and be confident that he is shooting the right choke.. thanks for your figures!
     
  16. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    As he gets more experience, he is going to shoot quicker.
     
  17. racer

    racer TS Member

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    Mr. Blkcloud, way too much info for kids. Teach them to be safe, some pointers around where to look for target and let them go. They will beat you by the end of the summer. Full chokes re-enforce the good moves. Dan
     
  18. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    Trap is a full choke game. Mark
     
  19. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    There is not enough variation in the density (note I did not say width) of the pattern from choke to choke at the distances you are talking about to warrant trying to select a choke to suit the distance at which the target is hit. Further, with a new shooter there will be so much variation in the distance at which the target is hit that any attempt to select a choke is going to be pretty much futile.

    If the shooter has gotten to the point that he can hit targets with any consistency at a particular distance, it's time to introduce him to the finer points of trap shooting, rather than trying to accommodate an excessive delay in pulling the trigger.

    Ted K.
     
  20. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    I shoot Full chokes, but there are rumors of folks who do not.

    Some have even suggested that some folks don't use 3 dram loads with 1-1/8 ounce of # 7½ , but can't believe it.

    .
     
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