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Any interest in buying Baker Elite w/Kornbrath?

Discussion in 'For Sale- Members only' started by Bushmaster1313, Feb 14, 2009.

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  1. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Any interest out there in buying my Baker Elite with what I have been told is Kornbrath engraving?

    If there is interest at a price of at least $5400 I would most likely put the gun up on GunBroker with that amount as an opening bid and no reserve.

    A Baker Sterling (the lowest grade) recently sold on GunBroker for at least $3400.

    12 gauge
    34" barrel
    Vent rib.
    approx 14 1/4 LOP to end of red spacer
    Manufactured 1915-1919 according to Conley book.
    Ivory beads appear original and intact.
    There is a small rubbed out area at the front end of the barrel which I will post.
    It looks like this gun was shot a bit a long time ago and then kept in a closet for many decades.

    I bought the Baker with a very old Morgan pad that has since been given to someone on Trapshooters.com who promised to give it a good home.

    Before shooting, the Baker would need repair of a small wedge shaped crack near the metal near the top of the left cheek and add a recoil pad. I am leaving this unfixed so the buy can know excatly what is being offered.

    I took the Baker to an bona fide expert on February 13 who said it would cost $300 to fix the crack and $150 for a recoil pad.

    I would suggest cutting 7/8" off the butt and adding a 7/8" period correct Hawkins ventilated pad and a 14 1/4" LOP.

    This is a spectacular gun. I do not know of any others that are available.

    I would use the proceeds for a more modern high quality trap gun that had less historical value.

    Please PM me for any questions and more pictures.

    Thanks

    Lou

    Lou
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  2. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    ELITE GRADE
    - elaborate scroll engraving, fancy wood and checkering.
    Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
    N/A N/A $2,500 $2,150 $2,000 $1,900 $1,800 $1,700 $1,600 $1,500 $1,350 $1,300
     
  3. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    CDAN:

    Why did the Sterling sell on Gunbroker for over $3,400 on January 29, 2009:

    http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=121402127

    Why do you fail to mention that in the same place where I think you got your numbers Kornbrath engraving is listed as commanding substantially higher prices?

    When was the last time a Kornbrath went for less than $10,000?

    You can also check out a recent auction where a rusty Baker Elite with posts removed from the rib and without Kornbrath engraving went for over $3,100:

    http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/engraved-baker-elite-grade-single-barrel-trap-sho-1-c-7qrzx7x6iv

    I do not care if you think my Baker is worth a lot less than I do, but please be accurate when the information that you give out to the forum could negatively impact the honest, fair and up front transaction that I would like to explore.

    Finally, the price on your list for a 100% Baker Elite was $2,500. Perhaps those are the "F" number Bakers. Anyone who knows about Bakers will know what an "F" number means.

    Plese let me know who will sell me a gun like my Baker for $2,500 so I can go there and buy another one!

    Lou
     
  4. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    Lou, From my research the letter F was never added to a single barrel trap gun? Where are you getting your info? It is believed that the company did not make any single barrel guns after it's sale in 1919 to H & D Folsom Co. The last of the Baker SBT were made from parts from 1919 to 1923 serial no 51000 to 51300 and the letter F was not added to the serial no. according to the books I have. I think the F designation was for s/s guns made after the sale. Bill
     
  5. headhunter

    headhunter Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a great gun. Awesome pictures!
    Good luck with the sale.
     
  6. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Bill:

    I am sure you are correct. I read online from the Digest of Cowboy Gun Values, or something like that, how an "F" was added after the sale but it does not say that any SBT's were made after the sale or with an "F"

    Here are a few more pictures, the first shows the rubbing near the muzzle and the second shows the middle bead.

    Headhunter:

    Thanks for the encouragement, the gun looks even better in person.

    An expert told me to contact the Julia auction house. I sent Julia pictures over the weekend and I am waiting to hear back.

    If I cannot realize the price I want now, I will just have to spend the $450 to get it made ready for me and shoot it myself! How sad would that be?



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  7. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    What camera setting and lens did you use on your close-ups?
     
  8. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Barry. P and S.

    Lou. Often these rare antiques catch some criticism on TS. Most of us, (and I would think that I am typical) know nothing about who Baker Guns were much less Kornbrath. I have a Merkle to put up this week and do not know how to spell it, much less sell it on TS. To me an antique gun is a RR BT99 or a K80 reciever on a Krieghoff. GA would seem the right place for this gun. But we look for mostly modern technology trapguns on TS. And that is why so few of us can relate to your Baker.

    Jack
     
  9. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Roach

    All the pictures were made with a simple Casio Exilim

    I put the zoom on max. or maybe a little less, and held the camera back a bit and then took the picture with the flash

    This gives me the best focus.

    Then I crop the pictures on Kodak Easyshare before uploading to Photobucket. I do not find the enhancement features of Easyshare helpful, but adjusting the color with the "eyedropper" does give truer colors.

    The last two pictures in the thread are out of focus because of wobble in my camera hand or in the gun.

    Important point is to let the camera focus by pushing the button half way and then clicking the picture.
    sort of like a two stage trigger!

    Would be glad to let you know more.
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Here's my opinion. If the gun were pristine. 100% correct it would be a $5000-7500 maybe more due to its rarity.

    Hard to find collectors for SBT guns especially vintage ones I can get several Purdy SBT guns for $4000-6000 in very nice shape.

    This gun would undoubtedly have value to a collector of Bakers or of Kornbrath engraving. If it is a Kornbrath engraved gun how do you know? Who is going to authenticate it. Is it Signed. NO. So how do We know the engraver. Unfortunately there are few of either of them.

    I see some things in the pictures I have to wonder about. The engraving and receiver are too perfect for the rest of the gun. The trigger plate screw is buggered but the engraving is pristine. The stock is dished and shows signs of considerable use. Could this gun have been engraved at a later date. The engravers of today have all studied Kornbrath and I know two personally who could easily duplicate this work.

    What do I think it's worth $3000 to 4500 in this market but just my opinion. If you an find a collector of these guns willing to overlook some imperfections than you may get more.

    Joe goldberg
     
  11. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Joe:

    Where would the later engravers have found space on an Elite to put the duplicate Kornbrath engraving?

    Are you suggesting they buffed the existing engraving down so they could have a clean slate for their work?

    Could you please post pictures of the engraving on the best Baker SBT in your collection.

    Could you please post pictures of the best Baker SBT that sold in the past several years.

    I've heard of guns by James Purdey & Sons,
    but I've never heard of the "Purdy SBT" mentioned in your post.


    Thanks

    Lou
     
  12. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Nice close-ups. That's a great little camera.
     
  13. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    The story behind my Baker Eite is as follows.
    I had purchased a 1956 Ithaca 37 and a 1941 Remington 31 from my local dealer for $250 and $350 respectively. Gorgeous guns.

    Cashing in on the run up in assault rifles, I sold my DPMS LR-308 on GunBroker (went through an FFL!) and asked my local dealer if he had any "special" guns.

    He liked that I wasn't trying to get a great gun for a steal and he showed me the Baker. I had never heard of Baker but I bought the gun because it was so beautiful. My wife thinks I'm nuts. I'm sure, however, that the TS community understands and empathizes with my pain.

    When trying to find out how to clean and care for the Baker, an expert in American shotguns told me it was engraved by Kornbrath, someone I had never heard of.

    Now I am simply trying to determine if there is interest in this beautiful Baker Elite, with all its bumps and warts exposed for the world to see. I would likely buy a more modern trap gun with equal value but less history. Perhaps a Model 21 Trap in good condition.


    Joe and Dan:
    Sorry for getting a little snitty about some of the earlier postings. I just did not like what seemed to be unhelpful criticism about a spectacular piece of American gunmaking history.

    Advice about what I should do to stabilize the stock before shooting is most welcome!

    What does it mean that the stock is "dished"

    Regards

    Lou

    Here are some pictures of a Baker Elite that sold at Rock Island for $3,100 in May 2008.


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    Here is my Baker Elite


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