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Any electronics techs here? need diagnostic help

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by wireguy, Mar 14, 2010.

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  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I'm a power electrician, and no training in the world of solid state. This is my first foray into that world. The circuit board is from my neighbor's electric gate. After much testing and observation I have determined that everything is functioning exactly as it should except when the relays to power the DC motor pull in, they instantly drop back out. The coils are 12 volt DC and are controlled by the DIP to the right of the blue relays, which in turn is controlled by the (master?) IC with the brown shroud into which all the other functions attach. Given that the only problem is the electrically held coils are pulling in but not holding in, I'm guessing the problem is in that DIP. There is a pair of micro-switches in the ram and they are functioning as designed. Is there any way to test the DIP? Would it be easyer to just replace it and see what happens? How does one un-solder something with so many legs? I have carefully checked for any sign of burned components and can find none.

    <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d189/wireguy/?action=view┬Ąt=temporary117.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Have you "wiped" the autoclose, inertia, and obstruct sense pots by rotating them fully from end to end a few times, then put them back in their original position? A dirty pot can cause a lot of trouble.

    Also, I would not assume the relays are not at fault. There are different types of relays, and different ways of wiring them. They may or may not depend on an external device, like an IC, to stay latched. They may be self-latching, electrically or mechanically.
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    BTW, I don't see the AQ250 gate control being available, but the AQ251, is. It's listed as the control board for the discontinued Pro-1000 gate. Click the link then click on Control Boards in the Discontinued section.

    It doesn't appear they have a schematic on their website.
     
  4. olddrum1

    olddrum1 TS Member

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    Along with noting the position of the pots and wiping them, I would disconnect the motor from the act. arm to the gate and test to see if it is functional in an unloaded state while also checking the status light.
     
  5. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    DIP switches should either be open, or closed. A quick continuity check with an ohmmeter will tell you if they are functioning correctly. 0 ohms-closed, infinity-open.

    To replace them you'd need a solder sucker--some models are relatively cheep. Heat the solder, hit it with the sucker.

    Do the continuity check first across the terminals corresponding to each switch. DIP switches almost never fail based on my 30 yrs+ experience in electronics.


    It sounds to me like a down stream load issue, or the latching E is not correct.



    Guy Babin
     
  6. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Wireguy, you may wnat to contact CGIndustries @ < www.cgiltd.com> they reman electronic controls. They would need IP and OP they rebulid many electronic boards give em call.
     
  7. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    There are two complete sets of relays in case one has a two gate setup. This is one gate, so one set of relays has never had a load on them. I'll test against them. The motor works fine when tied directly to a 12 volt battery. I'll wipe the pots and see what that does. It's frustrating because I'm SO close to making this thing work again, I can actually watch the motor turn 1/2 turn (with the shroud removed) before the relays drop out, or fail to lock in.
     
  8. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Thanks Bruce.
     
  9. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Any news?
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I always used Solder-Wick, a braided material that sucks the solder right up. It comes in vaious weights and sizes.

    You simply lay it on top of the joint and apply a hot iron. The solder sucks right into the wick and the component can be removed.

    There is an electric gadget you can put right on IC's, matches the legs but you probably don't want to buy it. My circuitry guy used the wick forever.

    Spray the controls and call tech support.

    HM
     
  11. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    Wiggle the legs of the IC carefully after using the solder wick to make sure they are loose. Pulling on the IC with a touch of solder still between the leg and the trace will cause you to pull the trace up with the chip. Many boards today are multilayer and therefore tough to get the solder wicked out of the hole on the inside. Be careful if an eyelet is installed in the hole - you do not want to pull it out. I have had more luck with the solder sucker. Also Radio Shack sells a device that will screw to the solder iron and heat all of the pads at the same time. This device is useful to melt all the remaining solder while gently rocking the chip until it comes loose.

    Some driver chips are simple gates that increase the current potential on the output leg after the input leg is stimulated with voltage. Look the chip up on the web and see how it works. You may be able to apply a voltage to an input leg and get the output leg to change state.

    Apply a voltage to the input of the relay to see if it will stay open. Trace the voltage from the chip both directions. The voltage may be falling out at the main control chip.
     
  12. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Lit,

    That would be "Nerd" talk. Lol.

    ss
     
  13. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Thanks guys. Wiping the pots didn't work.
    slowdp, that is a good idea. I'll apply volts directly to the coils and see what happens. Smoke test? LOL
     
  14. John Browning

    John Browning TS Member

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    Wireguy, I have to peddle with stuff like that and it looks like the obstruction sensor is set really lite, if the gate and motor have some wear on them you might try increasing this pot to see if that helps. Also I would think there is a travel stop control, that may be working to soon. John
     
  15. lefthdr

    lefthdr Member

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    The toe bone is connected to the ......... foot bone
     
  16. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    The travel stop control is a microswitch that doesn't even come into play until the ram is WAY out there. The positions on all the pots has been changed numerous times by me as well as wiped as per Brian. Today I tried to energise the relay coils manually to see if they would hold that way. I blew the DIP that controls the relays so either I got something backward or it was already shorted. I think the former. It's a 60 cent part.

    It's on it's way to someone who speaks solidstate-eese.
     
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