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Any Custeraholics?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by biff, Dec 4, 2007.

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  1. biff

    biff Active Member

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    While taking the winter off from shooting, I have been doing some reading in my spare time several of the many books about Custer and the Battle of the Little Bighorn. Are any of you hooked on this saga, I can't quit reading about it. I visited the Battle Field in the late 80's before I had read any of the books I am presently reading and was emotionally affected by what had transpired there. Biff
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I saw a show a while back on the History Channel. Something like "Battlefield Detectives."

    The evidence showed pretty clearly there was no "last stand" at Little Big Horn. He went in guns blazing, and was outnumbered and outgunned, and got massacred. Didn't look like it was much of a battle.
     
  3. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I am one - I am referring to Custer shoots (like annies or killers)
     
  4. Questor

    Questor TS Member

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    I am not particularly an afficianado of that chapter in history, but it is an interesting story about a pivotal event in our history.

    We visited the monument a few years ago and strongly recommend it to anyone else who is travelling Montana and vicinity. During the summer especially it is very worthwhile to take the tours that are given by the volunteers who are deeply knowledgeable in the subject and who are willing to share what they know.
     
  5. Roger IL

    Roger IL TS Member

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    Anothe book you may want to read is the Yellowstone Campaign. The book takes place in the same time frame. At the time of Custers Battle they wer in the Bighorns and could see the smoke from the battle field. They thought it was a prairie fire.............Roger
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I thought and was guessing that you were talking about "Custard" and I love it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    WPT, that's funny.
     
  8. biff

    biff Active Member

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    WPT, get you mind above your waistband! Did you know there are more books written about this soldier and battle than any other battle in the history of the US Army! Did you know that Custer knew many of the indians who were at this battle and that he admired them for wanting to keep their lands and their way of life. But he led to their downfall not only from losing this battle, but by his discovery of gold in the sacred Black Hills, land which the government garanteed was the Indians as long as the grass grows(forever). That president Grant hated "The Boy General" for exposing corruptness in his administration in the supplies provided for the indians, Custer was one of the earliest "Whistle blowers" when he supplied this imformation to the New York Hearld. Also Custer had presidential aspirations and allowed (against orders) for a reporter to accompany his troop so he could write about the heroic victory over the Indians maybe causing Custer to take a foolhardy risk as he was outnumbered almost 10 to one.
     
  9. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Try reading the new hardbook "Custerology". I have about 15 books on him and have visited Little Big Horn. Still need to go to his museum in Monroe Michigan. I focus more on his Civil War heroics. Many give him credit for saving Gettysburg...ie winning the Civil War, by holding off Jeb Stuart at Hanover thereby preventing Stuart from reinforcing Lee's failing battle strategy. In my opinion, I believe Custer was not only reckless and egotistical but also one of the greatest war tacticians ever.
     
  10. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I was born in 1939 and grew up with the Western Hero notion. Guys like Roy Rogers and Gene Autry were my heroes and I thought Custer was one of the good guys and the Indians were the bad guys. Then came the movie "Little Big Man" with Dustin Hoffman and it turned my whole outlook of good guys and bad guys upside down. I would really like to know the facts about the Battle. I would also like to learn the Facts about Billy the Kid and Buffalo Bill and Wyatt Earp and other stories that I grew up with.
     
  11. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Miketmx. I highly recommend that you visit Little big Horn and take the tour narrated by a Crow Indian. That's pretty much is the Native Americans story. A lot of fiction folklure,misunderstandings and confusion compounded by the fact that the Boy General was not very well liked in Washington DC.
     
  12. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    The Museum in Monroe is small but has a few neat things from the era. Renovations were just completed on the historical brick exterior of the building. My grand parents lived right around the corner and as kids we visited every weekend. Some of the locals refer to him as "old squaw killer".
     
  13. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    As with most things written about our own history,,,,,You cannot judge by reading the "white mans history"!!! Why???? Because its puffed up bullshit!!!!

    Read the story from the Indian point of view,,,,from Black Elk,,,he was there as a young boy,,and counted many coup on the white soldiers!!!

    Custer was a glory hunter,,,,and he didn't care how many men died to get it,,even his own!!!!

    Custer charged without proper battlefield intellingence,,,and was wiped off the face of the earth by "calvary" much better than his!!!! The indians were better soldiers,,,better horsemen,,,better fighters all the way around!!!!

    Sitting Bull played no part other than saying prayers and sacrificing pieces of his own flesh around his fire!!!

    The "war chiefs" were Crazy Horse and Gaul!!!!

    Custer attacked the center,,,and both ends came around and kicked his sorry ass!!!!

    While in full retreat the War Chief Gaul and about 1500 to 2 thousand indians cut Custers line of retreat in half,,,,,,and then Crazy Horse without about the same number of indians came right down the middle of the retreating column,,,The fight lasted no longer than it takes a hungry man to eat supper!!!!

    After the fight,,,,the sqaws moved among the dead and wounded and crushed their skulls with rocks,,,,then defaced the bodies with knives,,,,the testicles removed,,,the eyes,,ears,,tounges,cut from the bodies,,,the calfs,,the thighs sliced deep,,,This testicles were removed so the dead could they could not breed in the afterlife,,,the rest was done to the dead and the dying to keep them from coming after then in the afterlife!!! They poked sticks into Custers ears so he could finally hear what the Indians were saying better!!!

    The truth be told,,,,when fighting against warriors instead of women and children,,,the U.S. Army faired-----Poorly!!!

    What white men learned at West Point,,VMI,,etc.the indians had already learned by the time they were 16!!!!!

    The indians made fools of many Generals whom we refer to as Heros!!! Custer,,Crook,,Sherman,,and others!!!

    Had they listened to Tecumseh of the Shawnee and all joined forces,,the story would have been significantly differant!!!!

    What tactics the white man used was to "divide and destroy",,,,The same kind of tactics politicions use today to get votes from the divided ones,,,,the black vote,,the jewish vote,,the hispanic vote,,the catholic vote,,But never the "american vote"!!!! They divide you by race,,by age,,by gender,,by religion,,,,,and in the end they use what you believe in to "divide you"!!!!

    The shell casings are scattered all over the battlefield,,there were no places where a group of men stood and piled the dead three deep,,with shell casings all around a desperate last stand,,,,,they were slaughtered by bow,gun,by war club,,,they ran like scared rabbits,,,and there was NO FIRE DISIPLINE among the soldiers at all,,,,they fled in full panic!!!! George Armstong Custer was among the first to die!!!! His body was never found or recovered,,it was taken by the Indians and the flesh flayed,,,the remains probably fed to the camp dogs,,and the coyotes!!!

    Custer was trained in Conventional Warfare,,,,the Indians fought differantly,,and very effectively!!!! But what they lacked was real leadership,,,leadership that was absolutly ruthless and bloodthirsty,,,,just like the white man!!! But alas,,,,when it comes to cruelty,,and real 'kill'um all attitude,,,,they just did not produce those kinds of maniacs!!!!!!

    The indian version is much more reliable then the white mans!!! Why????? Well,,,lets say that 6 men in Arizona were killed by indians in that time,,,by the time it got to Santa Fe,,it would have been 12 men killed,,,when it got to Kansas City,,the number would have been 26 killed,,,by the time it got to Washingtom D.C. the number killed would have been 76,,,and when the Eastern Press got rolling it would have been 106,,and screaming for action,,to do something about the murdering hostiles!!!!

    In this case it was Libby Custer who carried on the tradition of making heros out of villians!!!!!!!

    AKA Grammie............
     
  14. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    grammie.... kudos to you and for the apparent investigation/research that you've done. I agree with about 95% of your post. The Indian version that I heard while at Little Big Horn was far from what we (white men) have been told or have read. You're right about Libby Custer carrying on the folklure of her husband. However, I have concluded that the Custer of 1876 was not necessarily the Custer of 1864. What happened to him and his wartime thought process is a mystery to me. Perhaps one day and a lot more reading by me,I'll draw a conclusion. Until that day I'll prefer to focus on his Civil War days. Wouldlove a discussion over a few glasses of wine.ya goin to the Dixie Grand?
     
  15. DJM

    DJM Member

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    That Custer was still alive after the civil war was a statistical anomoly with all the charges he led. From Gettysburg until the end of the war he participated in nearly every cavalry action on the eastern front. Graduated from West Point 34th among 34 at age 20. Less than 4 years later he held the rank of Major General.
     
  16. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Grammie, although you've got most of the facts...you have a very hard and contemptuous manner in stating your thoughts. Sounds as if you have read quite a bit about that and other historical situations involving our country's actions. I know there is nothing which can be done about the past and most probably about the future...if wars were fought by the politicians, there would be no wars!

    Many of the men of the 7th Calvary who survived the battle did not express their feelings about Custer due to the wrath Libby Custer would have brought down on them for speaking out. The Indians gave so many conflicting stories about what happened that any testimony by them was fairly discredited and also they were afraid of retribution in the form which Sitting Bull and Crazy horse got through assassination. I understand there is an Indian Memorial there now, when I was there I only saw a metal plate saying it was in honor of the brave warriors who gave their lives defending their homes and families against US soldiers who had come to kill them.

    Blade918, I hope to be counted among the number at the Dixie, look me up. Biff
     
  17. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    As a member of the great Fugawe Tribe, I can only say I'm glad that bastard got his ass kicked, but sorry for the soldiers who had to follow him!
     
  18. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    I saw the battlefield in '78. They had one of his buckskin suits on display. Custer was a small guy, maybe 5'2".
     
  19. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Hey grammie, any chance that the Indian version of what happened at the Big Horn is "puffed up bullshit"?
     
  20. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    WPT - where do you get your custard? I go to TCBY at Hayden and Via Ventura.
     
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