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Another Win AA question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by flipchop, Jun 15, 2011.

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  1. flipchop

    flipchop Member

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    This question has probably been answered a hundred times but I don't know what it is. Why did Winchester go to the new AA hull? I don't think anybody ever complained about the old style especially since all their reloading components were geared for them. Thanks for any responses, JD
     
  2. shrek

    shrek Active Member

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    the way I have heard it explained is that their old machines that made the compression formed hulls were worn out and needed to be replaced and it was less expensive, big picture wise, for them to retool to make the current offering.
     
  3. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Almost every business decision is based on cost.

    I am in the plastic business and we make large parts but some of the "basics" are the same. Injection molding dies are expensive. Both the male and female sides of the mold must be machined. We spend between $125k and 600k for one tool. You also need an injection molding press to produce parts. Depending on tonnage (force required to hold the die halves closed during injection) and platen size (size of the mold the machine must hold) a modern machine will cost $500k to $1500k. Production rates are limited by cycle rate - the time necessary to open and close the mold, inject the plastic and cool the plastic.

    Extrusions are less expensive as they are produced with "simple" dies. Figure less than 30% of the cost of a mold. Extruders are also less expensive as there are no platens to move and the controls are simpler. The product is made by squeezing plastic out of the die like a large sausage machine. The process is continuous as there is no cycling of the machine. The hot plastic is cooled in a water batch as it exists the die(s).

    But, extrusions can only be produced with fixed wall thicknesses. No tapers and definitely no "base wad".

    Injection molded parts can have almost any geometry desired (look at wads for example).

    That is the "short course".

    Don Verna
     
  4. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    As Winchester sales share decrease,they will be forced to return to the compression formed shell. Remington shells have taken over the lion's share of the market from shooters who reload. CD
     
  5. ms_yuan

    ms_yuan Member

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    Don, that's a great post. Thanks for the lesson.
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Pat--Are those Winchester sales percentages your opinion or fact? If they are fact where would one find such figures? I would think Winchesters Target shotshell sales make up a much larger percentage then what you stated. I however won't guess as to what it is.
     
  7. 3357

    3357 Member

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    I use 5-6 boxes of "hunting" factory loads for pheasants in a season, maybe 4-5 boxes of trap loads for grouse and woodcock each fall. I use 40-50 FLATS of shells each year shooting trap. Go figure.
     
  8. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Most AA and STS users reload. Yes, we shoot a lot, but we do not buy new factory shells and pitch them. If one averages 3 reloads and shoots 20,000 rounds a year (80 flats), we only need to purchase 20 flats of premium shells a year.

    If you are pitching 40-50 flats of premium hulls per year, I would be interested in buying your empties; but I prefer STS's.

    Don Verna
     
  9. 3357

    3357 Member

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    Don, I reload about 10 thousand a year for practice. I sell extra once fired hulls on a regular basis to reduce the cost of the factory loads I shoot at registered targets.

    I dont throw any hulls away unless they are worn out. With rebates and selling empties I can shoot factory shells for $4-$5 a box. Not playing options covers the bulk of the remaing $4-$5 cost. Since I am pretty much competing only with myself, I seem to enjoy shooting more. Jess
     
  10. Highrise

    Highrise TS Member

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    For 20 years winchester AA hulls/componenets were all that you would see in my reloading room. I have always shot factory AA (when shooting factory was the order of the day).
    . At this point I have begun to aquire STS hulls as I can no longer justify the AA hull as they are good for 2 re-loads at best. The truth of the matter is that if you go to any shoot you will see that both Remington and Winchester have priced themselves out of the market.
    I watch what is being shot at our local and surrounding state shoots and the fields are full of top guns, gun clubs, rios, wall mart winny universals etc.....and if anything the scores have gone up????
     
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