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Another Rules Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by deereRalph, Feb 5, 2011.

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  1. deereRalph

    deereRalph Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    Need help on a possible rules violation. My club called a redistered shoot
    today. It was called for a shooter to get registered targets, on short notice,this is allowed by the state association.
    I showed up at 1PM as instructed and started shooting, alone, at about 1:30 two more shooters arrived and shot, a fourth shooter arrived very late and shot.
    Should all of our targets be counted as registered or do we need three to start an event? This has come up several times mostly due to weather or traffic issues. According to the 2009 rule book: 3 shooters must complete the event in the same day. Don't want to list scores on my card unless they count.
    Thanks,
    Grif
     
  2. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    You need three to start.
     
  3. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Although I would not recommend starting with less than three, the requirement for a registered shoot does not say anything about starting with three shooters. So, Grif, since at least three shooters competed in and completed the same event on the same day of competition, as specified in the Rule Book, that shoot qualifies as a registered shoot.

    Rule Book:

    "Section IV ...

    A. REGISTERED SHOOTS

    1. The ATA governs the conduct of all shoots registered with it. Only clubs affiliated with their State/Provincial Association will be permitted to hold registered shoots.

    2. To constitute a registered shoot the following requirements must be met:

    a. all contestants must be members of ATA at the time of their entry, and

    b. each contestant must pay ATA daily registration fee of $2.00 for each day of competition at each shooting location ($1.00 fee for Big 50 events), and such other Zone or State Association fees as may be charged, and

    c. at least three (3) or more contestants must compete in and complete the same event on the same day of competition."
     
  4. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

    Joined:
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    This might be a fly in the ointment.

    3. At any registered trapshooting competition, no person shall be
    permitted to enter and take part in any completed or partially completed
    event or events after Squad No. 1 has completed sub-event 1 of any new
    event. At tournaments shot “bank system” with several squads starting
    at the same time on several traps, the procedure shall be construed to
    be the same as if all squads started on the same trap.
    E. SUB-EVENTS
    A sub-event is any number of targets shot on any one field at one time,
    with one full rotation on all five (5) posts by each shooter, such as 25 or
    50 Singles or Handicap targets or 10 pairs, 15 pairs, 25 pairs of Doubles.

    Looks like it depends on, if you completed 25 before the other two joined in.
     
  5. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    J.Woolsey:

    The rule you cited says in part, "no person shall be permitted to enter and take part in any completed or partially completed event or events after Squad No. 1 has completed sub-event 1 of any new event".

    The key phrase is "new event".

    Let's say singles is the first event of the day. Before the last squad of singles is finished, the first squad of the next event (handicap) starts on an open trap.

    I believe the rule you cited means if the first squad of handicap (the second event of the day) has finished a subevent, entries for event one (the singles) are closed.

    Reading Grif's note, it's not clear that there was more than one event. If that is correct, the timing of who shot the one event and when they shot wouldn't matter so long as there were at least three shooters and all three finished the same day.

    sissy
     
  6. deereRalph

    deereRalph Member

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    Thanks for the input. It was only one event, 100 16yd targets.
    Thanks,
    Grif
     
  7. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    Grif, just as a hypothetical, here is a reason the rule is written the way it is and the targets count:

    Suppose instead of singles, the event had been a handicap and shot at a one-trap club. Suppose one shooter is at 19 yards, the second at 23, and the third at 27. The rules do not allow any two of these three shooters to be on the same squad, so they must shoot separately. Since there is only one trap, the squads must shoot sequentially. Unless we specifically forbid such a situation, their targets would count, even though each shot alone.
     
  8. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    I believe you are 100% correct Sissy. J.W
     
  9. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Indiana
    There are clubs that will let you shoot by yourself on one day and turn the scores in the next registered shoot, usually a week later.
     
  10. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Care to name those clubs?
     
  11. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Now what would happen if the first event started and was halted by weather, power failure or other causes outside of the shooter or shoot management control, and a second event was scheduled to start at a published time. Then the problem causing the delay is cleared and the time is when the second event is to start. There may still be shooters paid and waiting to shot in the first event. These shooters would:

    A Be out of luck and the first event is over. They get their money back? If three shooters did not already complete the event, no scores would be counted or prizes awarded. If three shooters have completed the first event, Shoot management "eats" the bill for any trophy or award listed in the program and awards the three (or however many completed the event) the prizes and awards

    B. the First event and the second event run concurrently if there are enough trap fields to allow this. Each event running on its own field(s)? If the second event is a handicap event, squadding assignments may have to be changed to comply with separation requirements if a shooter is still shooting a Event 1 shoot while called for Event 2.

    C. Shoot management delays the start of the Second Event (which may cause it not be completed prior to curfew or daylight limits? Then the same questions come up as in A.

    D. Some "emergency contingency" provision is invoked to do something else? What? and is there any "emergency contingency" proviso in the Rule book? I do not recall ever seeing something like this listed.
     
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