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another POI question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by laura!, Feb 8, 2008.

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  1. laura!

    laura! Member

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    I get that you should get your gun to shoot where you look, but is the whole "where you look" thing something that you can or should change? Is a higher POI an advantage? I have been shooting for a year and I learned to shoot with a flat shooting gun (6" high). I've gotten fairly good with singles and struggle with caps. I'vs learned to look where the gun shoots. I have been slowly raising my comb, but I've kind of maxed that out. Is it better to learn how to shoot a higher POI? Is it an advantage for caps?
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Six inches is not high and assuming you are still pretty close you should be able to shoot handicap just fine with your singles gun.

    Neil
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You said you maxed out your comb. You have two choices to correct this. One is to have new posts made which are longer so you can keep raising it. Or you can get a package of Dr. Scholls mole skin and add some thin strips to the top of the comb until you get it to the right height to hit the handicap targets. I would use the mole skin at first to make sure that a higher POI is the solution to your problem. It might not be. HMB
     
  4. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    Six inches high at 13yds. or somewhere between 32--42????? Believe there would be a difference. With comb maxed out,depending on the gun you are shooting; I would think that it would shoot much higher than that. Steve
     
  5. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Laura, if you've got the comb maxed out and are only shooting about 6 in. high you must be spot shooting targets and not swinging the gun --I can't believe ANY gun would only shoot 6 in. high with the comb raised all the way.
     
  6. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Laura, is this a trap gun? At what yardage did you obtain the 6" high? What brand and model of gun is it?
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Laura, "shoot where you look" doesn't mean anything high-tech or magical. You are supposed to be looking at the target and that's where the gun should shoot. There is no "correct" POI - everyone's is different and the one that's right for you is the one that allows you to break more targets and break them well.

    Shotgunning is an exercise in hand-eye coordination - if your eyes follow the target, your hands will follow. Your hands hold the gun and the rest "just happens." If the gun doesn't shoot at the target you are looking at, something needs to be adjusted to make that happen. The most useful tool for that purpose is an adjustable comb, for that moves the position of the gun's rear sight (your eye) in relation to the bore.

    Of course, all that assumes that there is no mechanical problem with the gun like a bent barrel or misthreaded choke tube that is negatively affecting the gun's point of impact.

    Many people - and I'm one of them - believe that a gun should shoot higher as your handicap yardage increases. The theory is that it takes ever so slightly longer for the shot to reach the target and during that brief period of time, the target continues to rise. Again, that's something with which you have to experiment and evaluate your breaks. If the largest piece of your broken target goes up, the gun is shooting low and so forth.

    Ed
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget about gravity. HMB
     
  9. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Laura,
    Have you patterned your gun at 35 - 40 yards?

    I performed a POI test using 13yds and found my gun to be right on and approximately how high it was shooting (I have an adjustable comb). I then tested on a patterning board at 37yds and found I was shooting to the right by several inches and have yet to figure out the answer to that problem. I am sure this fact has had a deleterious effect on my scores and will need to correct or adapt to it.

    I shoot an XT and I'm using the top barrel too, so if I shooting to the right with the top barrel, the bottom may be off even more.

    Mike
     
  10. laura!

    laura! Member

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    Thanks for the responses. I have patterned my gun but, have since moved the comb. The 6" high comment is a guess based on where I believe I'm seeing the straightaways when I smash them, I'm guessing because I'm not looking at the barrel, so I could be off. I know my gun is basically a flat shooting gun. The "maxed out the comb" comment is based on I can't raise the comb anymore and still be comfortable with the gun. The reason I posted this question is I've been trying out a different gun with a higher POI. I'vs shot well with it but there's a learning curve with a new gun, especially one with a higher POI. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. Yes I'm at the starting line for caps and my current gun is probably perfectly adequate for that, but what I'm hearing is it may be more advantageous to shoot a higher POI for longer yardages. Since I'd like to get there some day, and, as a new shooter, I'm not too set in my ways, I can learn to shoot with a higher POI.
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You might want to try this. Lock the trap machine on straight aways from post 3. Start with your comb on a low setting, slowly raise it until you are ink balling the targets. Shoot all your shots from post 3 and shoot 5 shots before you raise the comb. You will know when you get the comb to the right height. HMB
     
  12. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Laura,
    I too am just starting out, so I'm on the 20 yard line. So far, my impression with handicap is it isn't so much how high your gun shoots, but how you are able to adapt to the longer yardages. I have been able to break birds out to the 25 yard line without practice, the leads are different but the height of the bird over the gun is about the same. From one of the explanations for a higher shooting gun where it takes a little longer for the shot to hit the target, one can always use faster ammunition. Right now, I'm staying at 1200fps.

    Mike
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    laura!- You could easily learn to shoot a gun with a higher POI and that may be advantageous at some time in the future, but for now I would suggest that you learn to shoot your present gun well. I am much more concerned about my present shooting than my future shooting.

    Also, don't fall into the trap of believing that changing guns will automatically improve your scores. You stated that you are a relatively new shooter and you should be able to avoid the "changing guns trap" for at least 3-5 years. Once in that trap, it takes over 10 years and many guns to get out.

    Also- measure your POI. It might be higher than you think. Shoot some paper from a good rest at 13 yards. In a pinch, 4-6 empty target boxes on there side will work. Aim at the red circle on the bottom of the box and see where your gun shoots. A quick, not entirely accurate but close calculation, of where the gun shoots at 30 yards is 3 times as high as it shoots at 13 yards. You might be higher than you think you are.

    Pat Ireland

    PS- forgive my double entente
     
  14. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to relate a story about my own shooting and how much "getting my POI right" helped. From the 1996 through the 1999 ATA Target Years, I carried a .956x singles average and couldn't get off the 23 yard line in either direction. I took being consistently mediocre to an insane new level. Then in July of 1999, I took my first Phil Kiner Clinic.

    Unlike the two clinics I attended before and among many other things he taught us, Phil worked to get our guns shooting where were looking instead of trying to get us to approach the target differently. Almost every student had to raise his/her POI and he proved that to us by showing us video of our targets breaking - the largest piece was consistently going up. (If you're sighting in a rifle and the holes in the paper aren't where you want them to be, wouldn't you adjust the sights?) And most of us had to raise our POI a little higher when we got into the handicap portion of the clinic.

    How much did that help? The following target year, using the same gun and loads, I finished with a .9828 singles average and was on the 27 yard line. From that experience, I've formulated the theory that successful shotgunning boils down to two basic and simple elements - you have to look at the target and your gun has to shoot where you look. More than that is just overthinking the process.

    Ed
     
  15. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Laura,,I got some longer browning adj comb post if needed. Just email me jrm7800@comcast.netxxx They are 1 1/8 long. PS hows the pitch on your gun. Once I got a stock that fitted my wife....well
     
  16. laura!

    laura! Member

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    Thanks for all the good advice!
    Laura
     
  17. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    laura, you have been given some good advice above and I'll try to add alittle to it. You haven't answered as to type of gun your using but I relay the following.

    When shooting handicap at what yardage are you shooting from?

    Is it a particular station that your missing handicap targets from? Is it a particular bird or birds from any or all stations?

    Its possible that your gun is not shooting straight left to right. This could be from a more than likely tubed barrel or improperly fitted stock.Its possible that your canting your gun to which the farther back you move the more effect it would have on shot placement.
     
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