1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Another M-1 question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by hairy, Feb 4, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hairy

    hairy TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    374
    Got the old M-1 fixed. Are they fussy about what weight bullet you use? I'd like to shoot up some 125 gr loads, but it will not cycle them. Some 180's go thru fine.
     
  2. kolar12

    kolar12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    AZ
    Use medium fast powdwers. ie 4064, 4895 or you can bend the opp rod. Bullets weighing 147 to 180. I loaded a bunch of bulk Remington 165 gr. Worked great
     
  3. hairy

    hairy TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    374
    I loaded a few 125 grain bullets with 52½ gr of 4064 and those just left the empty shell in the chamber. Pat Laib cleaned and oiled it so that shouldn't be an issue.
     
  4. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    The M-1 Garand is very "fussy" about the loads used. Military ball ammo was either 150 grain, or 168 grain. The reason is the gas system used in the M-1.
    The load used must be within a particular pressure curve in order to provide the correct gas pressure at the gas port. Excess gas pressure can severely damage the gun, incuding op rod breakage, and even damage to the receiver. Too little gas pressure will cause the gun to short cycle, failure to eject, etc. Please note that the issue is pressure at the gas port, not the chamber pressure as many assume. For this reason, only certain powders, using certain bullet weights, will provide the correct, and safe gas pressure.

    When first developed, the army initially used the standard M1906 (30-06) round as used in the M1903 Springfield. This round proved to be too much for the M-1 gas system, and standard ball ammo was altered to use the familiar 150 grain bullet, etc.

    As far as I know,no current commercial manufacturer makes ammunition suitable for the M-1. Eagle did up until a couple of years ago, but has since stopped. Ordinary 30-06 ammo found in dealers shelves now is not suitable by and large. There are good guides available which do list suitable powders and bullets for the reloader. Another solution to safe operation with standard ammo is an adjustable gas valve (these are usually available from Brownells and others) which contain an adjusting screw to allow the shooter to alter the gas pressure at the gas port, Proper adjustment allows excess pressure to escape via the valve rather than impinge on the op rod and other parts. They can be adjusted for nearly any 30-06 ammo, except for that which is too light to start with.

    Using these methods, I have shot my Garands for 40 years without a problem.
     
  5. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    390
    I agree with Jim, the adjustable gas cylinder plug is great. I got mine many years ago from McCann, its inventor. It will allow you some leeway in your loads, though I've never tried a bullet under 150-gr in a Garand. A popular duplicate load for the old 150-gr M2 Ball load is 46.5-gr IMR 4895 & 165-168-gr bullet, at 2635 fps in a Fed case with Fed 210M primer (but I prefer the CCI M34 "hard" mil-spec primer.) The Lake City M72 ball was specifically designed for the M1, a 173-gr bullet over 47.5-gr of IMR 4895 at 2640 fps. I duplicate it with 180-gr bullets. There's a reason all loads you see for the M1 are for 150-gr to 200-gr bullets. The powder burn rate with M1's is critical to prevent battering the operating mechanism. Accepted powder burn rate is 4895-4320, which window includes 4064. Main reason to avoid light bullets is, the M1's 1-10" barrel tends to overstabilize bullets under +/- 180-gr (i.e. bad accuracy.) Like Kolar12, my "blaster" loads use the cheap bulk Rem PSPCL in 165 and 180, which feed great & shoot well. Phil E
     
  6. wm rike

    wm rike Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    594
    Not to date myself, but back when the M1 was considered a respectable rifle for NMC work, I played around with some 125 bullets. I am fairly certain the basic recipe came out of a DuPont/IMR book. The IMR books have changed much, maybe even radically over the years, and I don't think the new editions list such a load anymore. I would have used either 4064 or 4895, as that is all I have ever stocked for the '06. Anyway, the impetus behind all this was to get a low-recoil load for rapid fire. They were in fact low recoil, easy on brass, and they cycled just great. Accuracy was nothing to write home about and I went back to the ever faithful 168s.
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,357
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    Accurate Arms 2520 provides the correct pressure curve for the Garand with bullets between 168-175 gr, the M1-A with the same bullet weights, and the AR-15 with bullets btween 62 and 69 grains.

    For the 125 grainer in the Garand, I would look at AA 2230. Think about where the gas port is. Pressures must be kept up. With the oal of this round, I am not sure it would have utter reliability. But, I have never shot a bullet under 147 gr in the Garand.

    There are other powders, but I once shot on a Service Rifle Match Team. I wore out a Garand match barrel a year, and did it with 2520 for all my practice. The Garand is probably at its best with the 168 SMK and 47.5 gr 2520 with commercial brass and Fed 210M primers. Max COAL is 3.340" If your barrel is military, 3.301" with the 168 is good. ( I looked in my old record books. I kept a diary on loading and windage and elevation for the Service Match Rifles)

    DO NOT try to magnumize your Garand. The gas system is the weak link, and will quickly self destruct if heavy loads with slow burning powder are shot. And, do not shoot bullets heavier than the 180. I prefer to use the 168-175 gr match bullets. I used 168 and 175 SMK, 170 Lapua, and 173 gr. M118 match bullets. The 168 seemed to give best results up to 600 yards. The M118 bullets came in last, just after the Lapua. Some folks loaded the 155 SMK for the short course. I preferred to use one load for everything.

    Keep a new action spring in the gun. Wolff makes a good one.

    The Garand is easy to load for, easy on brass, and is the most fun to shoot of about any self loader ever made.

    I think the most fun to shoot rifle EVER is the 1903-A3 Springfield. Unfortunately, my days of shooting iron sights with precision at ranges past 50 yards are over.
     
  8. atashooter

    atashooter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    625
    There is only 1 Factory ammo out there that is Garand compatable. It is the Federal GM3006M 168 BTHP. I have been in touch with Federal and this is the only ammo they have that is within the burn rate for a Garand according to them. Remington said no-go, Winchester said no-go. Fed was the only one I could find.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.