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Another Liberal dream about to bust

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by i_shoot, Feb 8, 2012.

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  1. i_shoot

    i_shoot Member

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    That's why more automakers are setting up shop in the South.

    i_shoot
     
  2. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    Interesting Rick, the anti- RIGHT TO WORK protesters that were bused to Indianapolis protested for the past two weeks (during the super bowl) claimed that this new law will result in jobs being lost in Indiana.

    Would be nice to see them proven wrong immediately...
     
  3. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    So what Liberal dream was busted?
     
  4. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Rick... I can't wait till you post the link from the "fair and balanced" FOX News. I'm so excited.

    Seriously, if this is a fact, no surprise to anyone. For year the Southern states have been "right to work" states. That's why the foriegn auto mfgs. moved South. No union = less pay and benefits. Good Business sence to me.

    blade819
     
  5. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Here's the Caterpillar story.

    Caterpillar-popup.jpg
     
  6. bluedevil

    bluedevil Active Member

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    The liberal dream is to control our lives and make a few chosen ones wealthy beyond belief. Been the dream down through the ages, absolute power and wealth, nothing new just new players.
     
  7. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Iowa is a right to work state and we are losing jobs. Apparently unions is not the only reason, don't ya think?
     
  8. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    I understand that the unions are a thorn in a lot of peoples sides. What I don't understand is why people that are anti-union do not feel that people that are union should not be able to make a good wage, have medical insurance and also have a chance at a pension.

    I don't know what most of you guys do or did for a living, and frankly don't give a shit. My question is if you have company paid or matching health care and or retirement benefits with your employer ( not union, mind you) and a large percentage of the population decides through personal feelings, that you don't deseve those and want to take them away from you, how are you going to react? Probably the same way I react when someone says I don't deserve the same thing. You are going to tell me to go to hell, I've worked for it and I deserve it.

    Just because I or "Joe Blow" are in a union does not make us bad people. It also does not make us "chosen ones". There is a trade union or sevice union in every state in the country. Yes, even in "Right to Work" states. Obviously the unions are not as strong in those states, but they are there.

    Also, FYI, that new Toyota plant at Tupelo, Mississippi and the Nissan plant at Jackson, Mississippi, were built with UNION tradespeople. The BMW plant in Georgia, same thing. I know because I worked at the Toyato Plant. EVERY tradesman on that project was a card-carrying union member.

    Right to Work, in my opinion meams Right to Work for less. Less money, less benefits, less pension.

    Right to work does not break the unions. What it does is allow any swinging dick to get hired as a carpenter, electrician, pipefitter, etc. , draw the same wages and benefits as the union member, but not have to join the union or pay dues. Is that really fair? I don't think so. What if you have been doing your job for 20 yuears and making the most money and benefits you can and the company you work for hires someone off the street that has absolutely no experience and psy them the same as you?

    RIGHT TO WORK SUCKS and that is my opinion. I'm through with my rant and I'll step off my soapbox so all you guys can tell me how wrong I am.
     
  9. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Rick....I've been a union operator (IUOE # 234) for 35 yrs and have never seen a less qualified person get a promotion because of seniority. I realize that unions in production plants are different but in the trades you get what you put into it.

    I do agree that if a person doesn't want to belong to a union he shouldn't be required to. In fact I have friends who are operators that have never belonged to a union.
     
  10. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    I must be misguided. I did not HAVE to join the union. I chose to. I chose to join the Carpenters Union because there was achance to make more money, have insurance and build a pension for when I retire. There was and is a sense of security that was not available with a non-union contractor.The non-union contractors did not offer any insurance or a pension plan.

    I pay dues, monthly and hourly that as long as I am working, I have insurance for me and my family and I will have a pension when I retire.

    Just because GM, Ford, for example, employ UAW members, and to work at GM or Ford you would be required to be a member of the UAW, so what. Why should a company that requires union membership be forced to hire someone that does not want to be in the union?

    That's like letting girls into the Boy Scouts to me.

    What if anyone that wanted to be a doctor or lawyer could just start being a doctor or lawyer, whithout any schooling or licensing? Would that be right?
     
  11. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    Rick,

    I agree with most of what you said.

    The part about dues money going to pay for life needs I disagre with. In most if not all cases with unions, being a member and paying dues gets the member medical insuranceor some degree.

    I don't know about other unions, but in the carpenters union, I pay $23/ month out of pocket and 3% out of my paycheck. in a normal year (prior to the economic downturn) I pay an average of $1300-$1500 a year dues, total. Out of that $1500/ year, I recieve no cost insurance coverage for myself and my family, I have a pension that I will get when I retire, and there is a death/disability plan if I am hurt or killed on the Job. The insurance has its normal co-pays for doctor visits and precriptions and such.

    As far as an employer requiring union membership, I have no problem with that. If you don't want to be a union member, then find somewhere else to go to work.

    You are free to seek your own destiny. If you don't want to be in a union that is your choice the same as it is my choice to be in a union. Why should I have to bend my destiny to suit someone else?

    I do believe that military sevice maybe should be required. I'm not completely sure on that subject and don't feel it is relevent to the subject as is political party affiliation, required medical coveage, or church affiliation.

    I believe that most places of business, wholesale, retail, service or whatever have certain requirements that have to be met to be considered for hiring. By not allowing companies that require union membership for its workers and forcing them to hire anyone that wants a job opens up a whole can of worms to many industries. That would be like forcing trucking companies to hire someone with out a CDL to drive a tractor trailer.
     
  12. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    Tell me why a union protects the worst employees and forces the better ones to do their work load? Worked as a Teamster for 25 years and the best hard working most dedicated ALWAYS carried the lazy and those that played games against the company. Right to work only makes sense to me. Let your work ethic and abilities speak for themselves. No need to hide behind a union card.
     
  13. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    BigBadBob... I couldn't agree with you more. Those who live to slam the unions here on TS.com should look into the history of unions and what they have done for the Anerican Worker ever since Samuel Gompers. You are also very correct about right to work states = low wages and less benefits. However, there is a fine line drawn as to the jobs made available, the locale and it's enconomy and so forth. I'm for both if that's possible.

    blade819
     
  14. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    Bad 303,

    I am sure there are unions that protect lazy workers. There are peoplele, regardless of whether they are union or not, that are lazy and will spend more time trying to look busy than actually being busy. I am in a trade union. If I don't do whaat is required of me, I will be replaced.

    Please do me a favor, do some real research on "Right to Work" before you make your final decision. Check out what it has done to the economies of the areas where it is. I think you will be surprised and maybe change your opinion.

    Blade,

    Thasnks for your post, although I would like you to do the same. In my opinion, you can't have it both ways.

    I will find a link about Right to Work and post it as soon as I can.
     
  15. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Bad303..........In the local I belong to you DON'T work out of the hall if you can't or won't pull your own weight. It only takes a couple of verified complaints from the employer and or other members and some seem to find themselves at the bottom of the out of work list with no hope of finding their way to the top. And just because you are near the top of the list you can be still be passed over if you not qualified to run the type of equipment the employer is asking an operator for.

    In a factory unions I can see your point.


    BBB and Blade....Some of the non-union heavy equipment employers here in Iowa do pay as much or a little more than the union employers. The difference lies in the benefit package. Like I posted above, I have friends in the non-union sector who are just as good or even better operators the some of the union ones.
     
  16. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    Here is a website about the impact of "Right to Work" Of course it is only 1 opinion. there are many others both pro and con.
     
  17. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    Likes-to-shoot,

    I know carpenters that are non-union that are better than some union guys. That will happen in any trade. Like you said, the difference is in the benefit package.

    Most people have their opinions. Opinions that sometimes have no knowledge backing them up. They only work from what they have heard or read and not what they know.

    There are flaws with any system. There are many good things about unions and what they have done for the American worker and just as many bad things also.

    I still feel that if you are qualified for the job, and that particular job at that particular place of employment requires you to be a union member, then you either become a union member or go find somewhwere else to work. period.
     
  18. Fireball

    Fireball Member

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    A person I know was a middle school gym teacher for 30 years in a rural area of NY. His last year on the job he made $115,000. in a school of less than 400 kids. His retirement will be about 60% or app. $69,000. per year for the rest of his life. This also includes bennies and yes he is a union member.

    It is of my humble opinion that no teacher in a public school in a rural area, should be paid those kind of wages for teaching middle school gym class.

    Kind of like a union carpenter making $80,000. a year. I don't know of any carpenter or any other tradesman that is worth that much money. Eighty grand for pounding nails seems a little excessive to me. But thats just me.
     
  19. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Fireball.........I've made more than $80,000 in a year but that was 60 - 75 hour work weeks or a lot of seven day 12 hrs a day weeks. Do the math. Or was I supposed to donate 20 - 35 hrs a week?


    I would imagine the unions that include non citizens would be near the borders or in high immigrant populated states and not like the businesses through out the country who hire the non-union illegal immigrants.

    The differences of the two would be?
     
  20. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    My union dues went to stab me in the back politically and i had no say. Is that what unions are for? Unions even try to tell me how to vote? Are union workers so uneducated that they need lead by the nose? How much fraud goes on in the union locals with mine and others union dues? Just not a system i or many want to be a part of. And that is what this country is about. Personal choice and right to work is a better system. No one is forcing anyone to do something in a right to work system but in the union system people are forced and coerced to be a part of something that is fraudulant.
     
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