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Another K-80 Comes apart!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ec90t, Sep 7, 2008.

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  1. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Last Wednesday, a skeet shooter's K-80 came apart. This happened at Indiana Gun Club. He was using his Briley 20 ga. subguage tubes and was using STS reloads. The gun came apart at the chamber like a barrel obstruction, but there wasn't any. I don't know any particulars of his reloads. A few months ago, this same shooter, had to have the top 20 ga tube replaced because of a crack in the chamber area. I don't know if they have anything to do with each other, but it should be noted.

    I didn't see this first hand, but Steve Smith was telling me about it. I would call the info creditable. The gun has been sent to Kriegoff for evaluation.

    ec90t
     
  2. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Who's fault Briley or krieghoff or the reloader's. This is not objective information. more like K bashing! More info is required.
    Joe
     
  3. SMITH47

    SMITH47 Member

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    what do you mean "another K-80" ?

    i never heard about the previous one ?

    ernie
     
  4. dog easy

    dog easy TS Member

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    Clearly shooting this gun with a Glock 40cal unsupported barrel.......No wonder!

    Shoot safe, John
     
  5. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    so far 90% of all guns I have seen and heard of major barrel malfunction have been with reloads. 70% guns purchased used. I have only seen 1 new gun shot 5 times with factory loaded ammo have a barrel problem. 1187 sportsman the 500.00 dicks special. shooter shot it 5 times and then it wouldnt eject. The barrel tang had cracked. I suspect the feather like hands of the dicks store clerks.? I have been asking the gents who reload at our club....the details of their loads. Uhh scarry.
     
  6. hoggy

    hoggy TS Member

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    Well if it has to do with Harleys or Krieghoffs ec90t will bash it.
     
  7. Don K8020

    Don K8020 TS Member

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    There were instances of chamber cracks in the old-style Briley subgauge tubesets, particularly in 20 gauge, and supposedly this was the reason Briley redesigned their tubesets a couple of years ago (new design is called the Revolution, and the old design is the Classic).

    Of necessity, the chamber wall in a 20 gauge tube is pretty thin in order to fit in a standard 12 gauge barrel.

    Briley still sells the old design (the Classic) and its fine for standard skeet style loads. The new design (the Revolution) changed the extractor design and eliminated stress risers and I am told should be the tube to go with if you shoot the hotter (1300fps) sporting clays loads.

    I think the new Revolution design is pretty close to the Kolar AAA tubesets. I use Kolar tubes, simply because I couldn't find any anecdotal evidence of AAA tubes cracking, but I could about the Brileys.

    Neither Briley nor Kolar has told me that cracked chambers in a tubeset created a dangerous condition in a 12 gauge barrel.

    Don Anderson
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    FYI, Briley has discontinued the Revolution tubes, and will retrofit Classic chambers on Revolution tubes for no charge (or so i've been told, i'm a Kolar shooter thru and thru).
     
  9. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Doesn't know what failed, or who's fault, but "Another K-80 comes apart!"
    No bashing?
     
  10. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Is there a difference in quality contol on materials between a $500 gun (Rem)and an $8,000 gun (Kriegoff)? Not sure, but I would hope so.
     
  11. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Shooting reloads that are over normal pressure limits, over a period of time, can cause metal fatigue and eventual failure. The 20ga is one that has been loaded to some higher pressures by a LOT of reloaders. How many times have you seen a shooter use a powder that's suitable for 12ga target loads, in a 20ga? I guess they want to save some money and use only one powder. I'm very conservative with pressures when I reload. I DON'T swap around with components unless I have data to support it. Especially Primers! I've seen many reloaders that don't seem to care. Just because a gun doesn't show signs of failure after one box of those super special whammy reloads, does not mean the load is safe. It's what happens after hundreds or THOUSANDS of them. Check out HP White Labs for some great information on firearms failures.

    Here's their home page:

    http://www.hpwhite.com/

    Check out the PDF Documents found here:

    http://www.hpwhite.com/download.htm

    These two are of significant interest here:

    http://www.hpwhite.com/100-00.pdf

    http://www.hpwhite.com/101-00.pdf
     
  12. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    lots of misinformation

    1. Briley hasnt discontinued the Revolution - but there was another design that they did discontinue

    2. Cracked chambers are dangerous- in the extreme they could allow gas to get between the tube and the barrel- pushing the tube inward-- and one can imagine it could just fold inward and block the barrel completely

    3. Krieghoff proofs their barrels at several times the pressures for target loads

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  13. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    This wasn't a "K" gun bashing thread. It was mearly a bit of info that I found interesting. I was surprised that a 20 ga shell had enough power to cause a major faliure in a full sized gun. I've heard about guys accidently shooting a 20 ga shell in a 12 ga chambered gun and causing problems, but not a shell shot through a sub-guage tube.

    I thought that this might be a case of detonation that has been discussed on this site a few times.

    ec90t
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    GN7777777

    Regarding the proof testing of firearms, it really isn't a reliable test of a gun's resistance to failure over time, due to over pressure loads.

    Here is an excerpt from HP White's document found here:

    http://www.hpwhite.com/101-00.pdf

    "1.5 Successful compliance with recommended Proof Testing does not
    establish the pressure at which a previously unstressed gun assembly
    will fail and, therefore, does not establish the margin of safety
    inherent in the assembly, nor does Proof Testing provide any insight
    whatsoever into the likelihood of a fatigue failure induced by
    repeated, moderately excessive pressures."

    If you had stated that they had submitted sample firearms to HP White's lab for their advanced methods of testing, or had done a similar procedural test themselves, it would carry a little more weight than just "Proof Testing". The procedure is described in the documentation at the above url. Bruce Bowen put an inexpensive H&R through some pretty rough experiments, but that only proves the gun was able to withstand a few circumstances where a gun with a structural defect would probably have failed. Read the documents I had linked in my previous post and then see what you think of "Proof Testing" and catastrophic failures. It's an interesting and enlightening read.
     
  15. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is like the 4-5 K gun barrel blow up, that I have seen on this site in the last 2, maybe 3 years or so. Now with that said Briley is still making the Revo tubes for shooters. They had problems with the ones they made before the Revo's, called the Draw-Lock tubes. Tubes had like a threaded choke tube end that you tighened down to draw the tubes in on the same end as the chokes. Tubes when into chamber and you screwed the endcap in the muzzle end to get them to fit snuggly into barrel.(They like to come loose to much) And Yes, Kolar has had problems with cracks in there tubes as well. Briley has done a better job of fixing there problems with the cracks at no charge to the owner, even if you were the second owner of the gun. Alot of skeet shooters shoot the 20ga. 3 times more than the other ga.'s. They will shoot the 12 ga and 20 ga and doubles events all with the 20ga. tubes in the same shoot. Compared to only l event with the 28ga. and 410 at the same shoots. I too agree with quack shot that too many shooters will try to use wrong powder or to much in the 20ga. It was very common some years back to load 12ga., 20ga. and 28 ga. all with green dot powder. We now know that this is not a good idea. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  16. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    If you shoot 20 guage tubes, Universal clays is a better choice than International. As stated here, both brands of tubes have had problems.

    I saw a Kolar tube crack, shooter was loading International. Saw him a month later, he told me Kolar said he should use Universal.

    Makes sense to me. I like Universal better anyway, doesn't fill the case as much.

    HM
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I shoot a K-80. I reload AA hulls. What are my chances?

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Pat; I think you ought to sell the gun. It's so bad that I will offer you $100 scrap price.

    Don
     
  19. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    I've seen a few cracked 20 gauge inserts...

    The last was maybe two years ago. The shooter admitted he was reloading hot shells.

    Of all the tubes, 20 is the thinest.

    As stated above, never a problem with Universal Clays.
     
  20. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    I shoot a Perazzi MX10-RS, what are my chances of this gun blowing up? I would guess slim to none. BRGII
     
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