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Another Dumb Idea

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by bigclown, Jun 13, 2007.

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  1. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    I've read lots of threads on how to improve the grand old game of trap...classifications for 16 yd....changes in handicap, etc. Since I am relatively new and uninformed, why not introduce different gauge events? Shooting 16s with 20, 28, 410? Might bring in others who may not want to invest in an expensive trap gun and introduce something to break up the marathon 100s at 16 yds. everyone complains about. Probably won't work because most clubs have enough 12 ga. shooters for all events. Just asking...don't tromp on me too hard. Best regards, Ed
     
  2. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    Sorry but that would be called skeet. Money is too watered down as it is without adding sub gauges to the mix. John
     
  3. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    It's really not a bad idea. Except, instead of having one trap, why not have two traps, one throwing the targets from the left and the other from the right; and have all the stations spread out in big semi-circle, except instead of five stations, have eight.
     
  4. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Not a great idea.

    There is no "disadvantage" in using a 16 or 20 gauge. (many 100's shot with 1 and 7/8 oz loads now)

    Serious trap shooters will always shoot 12 ga as ammo/hull costs prohibit use of the sub gauges (28ga and 410 bore). 16 ga has the same cost problem.

    In a "club" environment you can shoot anything anyway so what is the problem? They guys shooting two boxes a week of 28 ga are not going to keep a club going - and they can do that now.

    Don
     
  5. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    Nyttro, can you show me where you can't use smaller gauges in handicap? Where does it say that it won't count? Not to be argumentative but you can shoot anything not larger than 12 gauge. As Alf174 says, you will get no special consideration. John
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Any 12 ga. or less may be used in any ATA event. I am aware of one situation several years ago where a competitor was using a 20 ga. for handicap events only with the stated purpose of getting a reduction. I recommended to the CHC that a reduction not be given to this shooter and it was not awarded.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter what you do, the good guys will still win.

    we need to put something in the water that makes them dizzy.

    HM
     
  8. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Nyttro,

    What the rule means is that you will not be allowed to get any added birds because you shot a smaller guage. It's somewhat like golf where you can get strokes deducted from your final score according to your handicap.


    Eric
     
  9. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    Interesting comments. I figured that this idea had probably been debated before, but with all the criticisms of "sandbagging" opportunities and problems with B, C, & D class 16 yd. shooters actually having a good day and breaking 100 causing the wrath of non-believers, just thought a different approach to add a different dimension might be worth a try. True, the logistics of scheduling would be a problem. Also, as several have noted, the better shooters would all "rise to the top" of about any game. Thanks for the insights. Best Regards, Ed
     
  10. FarmerD

    FarmerD TS Member

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    Nyttro;
    What the rule states is that by using a sub-gauge, that you will not gain any benefit over using a 12 gauge. Pat just didn't allow the person to get a reduction by using a sub-gauge gun and supposedly handicapping himself for a reduction. RG
     
  11. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    BigTuna:

    I have just started using smaller gauges for 16's and I can tell you it is a blast. I first tried it at Missouri State shoot and broke 89 doubles and 97 16's with a 20 ga. In my opinion, there is not much difference between a 12 or 20 when shooting close targets.

    The next time out I am going to try a 410 from the 16's. I have a MX-8 with full length Kolar tubes and I tried the 410 on sporting clays the other day, and again it was a ball and much more challenging than the 20.

    As far as what average or class I am in for registered shoots, I could care less. I always ask that I be classified in the highest class for every event even if my average is below the top class.

    Mark Rounds
     
  12. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    Mark, thanks for your comments. I have a full set of tubes for my Beretta 682 and the .410 and 28 ga. are always my favorite to shoot at skeet and sporting. Sadly, they are Briley fixed choke type with like .005 but they work for skeet. May try them at 16 yd. trap. Best Regards, Ed
     
  13. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    Nyttro, if you shoot say a 20 gauge in singles and by some miracle happen to run both events, they would in fact count, were you to use it in handicap and run them, an even bigger miracle, you would get a punch. Look at it like this, you are not allowed to shoot practice with shooters shooting an ATA registered event (except for the big 50)so by your logic, shooting a sub gauge would be basically practice if it didn't count. See? Trust me, it counts.

    You just do not get any special consideration at classification. Pat refused that one guys reduction because he was in effect attempting to cheat. I promise you that you CAN take a .410 out to the line and shoot and whatever you shoot with it will be counted. Do it on handicap just to get a reduction though and I would about bet that anyone will turn you in for sandbagging in an attempt to get an unfair reduction.
     
  14. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    No consideration means that no special advantages will be given, Simple as that. You can shoot whatever you want as long as it is 12 gauge or smaller. It WILL count if it is a registered event. Period. I do not know how it can be made any simpler. The statement is not vague. It means exactly what it says, no special consideration. In other words, you will gain no advantage by shooting a smaller gauge.

    And where on earth do you see anything about classifications being based on the last 100 targets? That is not in my rule book.

    Yes, the guy with the sub gauge that shoots a registered ATA event WILL enter them onto his/her average card. IF they win they win, that simple. Don't overthink ATA trap, it will do nothing but cost you targets.

    Also, Pat never said that the targets did not count, just that they were not used to figure his reduction. There IS a difference.

    John
     
  15. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    bcnu has it right. You can shot ANY gauge you want (as long as it is 12ga. or smaller). What the rule says is that no special consideration will be given to you because of it. I know a couple of shooters who have shoulder problems and shoot a 20 ga. for that reason. You see many kids shooting a 20 ga. these days. The targets count for ATA scores, but nobody gets special consideration for shooting a smaller gauge. Apparently the guy Pat was talking about was trying to lower his scores (in handicap) by shooting a smaller gun in hopes of getting a reduction upon a 1,000 target review.All his scores counted, but his obivious attempt to try and gain a reduction by use of a smaller gun caused his "reduction" to be denied upon review.
     
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