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Another classification question....

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by TOOT, May 2, 2007.

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  1. TOOT

    TOOT TS Member

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    The scenario:

    My scores for the last two years have reflected a solid "A" class shooter, ending last year at 96.38.

    My 1st 100 targets this year (last Sept) was a 95. Then early this spring I shot a very windy event and tanked with an 82 and a 92 in two back to back 100 target events that day. Since then a 96 and 93.
    So adding the last 500 targets for this year I have a 91.6 avg. or B class.

    Question, am I “B” based on this years 500, “A” knowing my past and know ability or am I at the mercy of the classifying official at each shoot?

    I must tell you I have signed up in “A” class at every event this year and have never been challenged.

    And....how do I fill out the card? Next to each shoot there is a box for "class" is that the class I shot in or the class the score reflects?
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    The rule book has a suggested guideline that I highlight and keep on the classification table. If the shooter has between 500 and 1000 targets in the current year, use the Current year average or Previous year average whichever is higher. You should still be in Class A. The Class on your card should be the Class you shot in.
     
  3. TOOT

    TOOT TS Member

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    Well nice try..........They put me in "B".

    When I cited the above excerpt, they interpreted the 500-1000 references but refused to consider the last Statement "the previous years average, which ever is higher". They looked at me like I was from Mars.


    No amount of "rule quoting was going to out way the first line "suggested guidline"....which was theirs to write and enforce.

    Sadly the people who suffer the most from this attitude are the legitimate "B" shooters that are now forced to compete against legitimate "A" shooters.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    TOOT just injoy a very short time in B class . You will get back on target and win one or two in B class and be put back in A class . I,m a borderline A class shooter and I get to shoot with AA shooters all the time as my home club runs four classes. So every time I shoot I need 100 to win anything ?? I also shot this last Winter and some really bad days my avg got down to B class so the very first shoot in B class I win so back to A class ??
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There remains some personal judgment in singles and doubles classification. I would classify TOOT as a class A singles shooter. Others apparently would put him in B. This does not mean that I or the other individuals are incorrect. It means only that we are different.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Pat on this one.

    I would however say that if I had a shooter quote rules to me to get him in a higher Class. Well guess what you got it if you want to be in A that bad rather than argue with you and hold up the classification line I would just accommodate you.

    If you wanted to go the other way in a similar situation now we have a Rhubarb.

    Bob Lawless
     
  7. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    i still say if you win in a major shoot at 16 yards you should be bumped a class and stay there for 1000 targets or one year etc. i just shot with a guy today who ends up every year at 22 yards or so but allways ends up at 20 yards before the state shoot or grand. Figure that.
     
  8. TOOT

    TOOT TS Member

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    "The true measure of a man, is what he does when the world isn't watching"
     
  9. TOOT

    TOOT TS Member

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    I will likely take a lot of flack…but here is another interesting scenario:

    The largest shoot I have an opportunity to attend is our State shoot. Last year leading up to it I was an A shooter, I shot 300 singles (at State)…99,99 and 96 (98 avg. for those 300) after which I shot only 300 more in that target year…193/200 (wound up in a shoot off for class winner) and a 96. So for the 600 singles remaining in that year I averaged 97.1.

    The beginning of this target year, obviously I slumped…….or…. am I managing my targets prior to the State shoot so I go in at a lower class?

    Suppose the shoot management at State suspects that (by looking at my history) and invokes “known ability” and puts me in AA based on the 97.1! Not likely, but they can!

    I won’t have the opportunity to shoot any more until State this year (I will still have between 500 and 1000) if they follow the lead of the last shoot classifier and they leave me in B…and I shoot as I did last year it is really unfair to the B shooters.

    I know….I am obsessing, but how many times have you looked at the shoot results and seen shooters scoring way outside their class and speculated on how that can happen? Well this one way!
     
  10. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    From an earlier thread:

    I thought about this topic where the ATA uses target year and the PITA uses last 1000 targets for calculating the average. The ATA guidelines paragraph has:

    5. For better classification of shooters it is suggested that the following method be used. a. If the shooter has less than 500 targets on current year’s Average Card, use the previous year average and known ability. b. If the shooter has between 500 and 1,000 targets (inclusive) on his/her current year’s Average Card, use the current average and known ability or the previous year’s average and known ability, whichever is higher.

    I think the next logical missing sentence should read:

    c. If the shooter has more than 1000 targets, then use the current year average and known ability.

    Nowhere in the ATA rulebook is there any requirement for the shooter to keep an average of the last 1000 targets. The classifier can use discretion but in ATA rules the target year average evidently has priority over the last 1000 targets shot. The guidelines in the ATA rulebook are also missing any information on how the classifier should use the Win/Tie column of the shooters card. Flexibility for the Classifier on a Regional or Relative Shoot Size basis must be the reason that the ATA guidelines are Not more specific.
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    TOOT:

    You're slicing and dicing those numbers too much. It sounds like you ended the last target year w/ a 96.38, call it "A" class. This year you will probably have less than 1,000 targets with a lower average of, it looks like 91.6? Based on the guidlines repeated above you would be classified as "A" this year, because your prior year average is greater than your current year average. Maybe someone will put you in B, but A is justified also.

    It is doubtful anyone will realize you averaged 97.1 for the particular 600 targets you calculated above so that will not come into play. If you shoot like this every year, maybe they will notice all the 99's fall when you're at the state shoot and put you in AA. Doubtful, but, that is why classifiers have discretion.

    If you feel guilty about B, point out last year was a solid A average and you tied for class at the state shoot.
     
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