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Another Can Of Worms " SHOTSHELL SPEED"

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Jul 10, 2010.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I was looking at Neil Winstons posting on June 9th 2009 about 3 dram loads and the + or - 90fps ok 1200fps + or - 90 fps so Sporting Clays Load of 1300fps ould be used legally as -90 fps puts it at 1210fps on the minimum side and 1390 on the max side, so a shooter says my 1300fps sporting clays shell are on the slow side of 1210, how can this be contested? And by what means, as you look at some 1 1/8th ounce trap shells they say Max Dram Equiv on Estate Hdcps, what is max dram equiv?

    The sporting clay shells fall into this category when yuou take the = or - 90 fps into account, and can justifiably called trap loads strictly by the = or-
    stipulation, why can't they use the lower speed category? It applies.

    The first WInchester Silver Bullets Introduced at the Southern Grand at the Silver Dollar, with the +s pluses printed on the shell were chronographed at 1320pfs and the average on 10 shells was over 1300fps and the kicked like h*ll, we used them for shootoffs in buddies.

    This is meant only for discussion now, it is a way to abuse the rules.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    No, because Winchester says it's 1300fps....and I'm sure You know this is so as several years ago a top shooter "self-disqualified" himself when he realized he had purchased and used "Sporting Clays" loads marked 1300fps....
     
  3. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    American trap remains the ONLY clay target game that has a speed limit on ammo. The others only restrict shot weight and shot size .
     
  4. Smiley

    Smiley Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    The problem with FPS in shotshells is you need to know where the speed was measured ie at muzzle or at 3 feet from muzzle or even further out
    Paul
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    Gary Bryant asked a good question "what is max. dram equivalent?". The answer is nobody knows. The unit of dram equivalent is so archaic and that would make maximum dram equivalent maximumly confusing. We are very fortunate that the ATA has dropped all references to dram equivalency.

    Shot speed can be measured by two different methods, and these methods will give slightly different results. In a shot cloud not all of the shot are traveling at the same speed. A few shot travel faster and are at the leading edge of the pattern. The velocity of these fastest shot are measured by our light chronographs. The bulk of the shot are behind these leading shot. Factories and Neil are set up with a different type of chronograph that measures the speed of the greatest mass in the shot cloud. This type of chronograph will give slightly slower readings than a light chronograph.

    A problem with measuring shot shell velocity is that we have nearly 500 individual shot traveling at many different speeds and we are expected to derive a single velocity number from this.

    Adding to this confusion is the fact that 1200 ft./sec stamped on the box of at least one imported discount shell is a very different speed than 1200 ft./sec stamped on a box of Winchester AA shells. In fact, with one brand of discount shell I have tested, the number 1145 Ft./sec stamped on one box is the same speed of shells from another box stamped 1200 ft./sec.

    The ATA has cut through all of this confusion with a rule defining the maximum speed of shot in a shell. It is true that the ATA is the only shotgun sport that regulated shell velocity. This clearly shows that the ATA is far advanced beyond the other shotgun sports. Perhaps some day the other sports will catch up with the ATA with their rules but not with the popularity of shooting ATA targets.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    The ATA should require 7/8's and 1200fps shell. That would change the scores.
     
  7. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    Its unenforceable rule.

    What if I show up to an ATA shoot with my reloads that are going 1400fps. Or what if my batch of official factory loads happened to all be on the high side and were one fps outside the rule? How the heck is that infraction going to be proved and by who?

    It’s a silly, outdated rule and the other shotgun sports know it. That includes the Olympics, who have the funds, trained officials and equipment that MIGHT be able to detect shot speed.
    The ATA rule should be “shot weight and size only”. Easy (ier) to police and enforce.

    IMO..with all the talk about increasing the max yardage to 30 yards, adjusting the handicap assignment, and so on, to level the playing field a bit.....an easier and NO COST answer would be adopting the international rule of 24 grams. 24 grams is a win win for everyone, the clubs, the pocketbook, the environment, the ATA, on and on.

    Mark


    Hey, with 24 grams… you get FOUR extra boxes of shells from each bag of shot.
     
  8. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    or better yet, remove any rules about ammo. Let the ones that feel it is advantage to pound your shoulder all day just have at it.
     
  9. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    Or, just much ado about nothing....
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    Common sense solutions are not permitted. HMB
     
  11. jd8820

    jd8820 TS Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    how is going to 7/8oz loads going to help shooters who can't break them now. these with averages less then 90% still are going to get beat
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    Mark- International shooters are allowed to shoot 24 grams + 24 grams = 48 grams of shot at each target. Much more than the ATA allows.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    To get back to LS's post about the "+/- 90 fps": it's not "Your Shell" +/- 90fps compared to the rule. It's the rule compared to your shell. 1290 is the max in your case, and if your shell is 1300 it's illegal. That part is pretty straight-forward.

    Enforcible, that's another issue.
     
  14. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    jd8820: Who said anything about winning?
     
  15. jd8820

    jd8820 TS Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    410ga You are correct and I agree it would change scores but I don't think the end result would be much different. Most of the current top shooters have more then 100,000 to 250,000 targets from the 27 yd not to mention the pratice they have shot. These shooters are hard to beat with whatever they shoot. As Frank Little said when asked why he shoots 11/8 of 7.5 at handicap he said because they won't let me shoot 11/4 oz.Just my thoughts Paul
     
  16. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    "I don't think that International shooters are not allowed to shoot 48 grams at a single target from one shell. "

    So, You think that International shooters are allowed to shoot 48 grams at a single target from one shell. Right?
     
  17. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Another Can Of Worms

    Pat was alluding to the rule allowing a second shot in International Trap.
     
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