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Another bushmaster is used

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by smsnyder, Dec 25, 2012.

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  1. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Looks like another semi auto bushmaster rifle was used to kill two firemen in NY. The weapon was used by an Ex con.
     
  2. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    And your point is what? Is it that Bushmaster makes evil guns? Is it that owning a Bushmaster turns felons into murderers?
     
  3. 548

    548 Guest

    Perhaps a 1200 fps 9mm round would have done less damage in the course of slicing through heavy fire fighting clothing than that of a 2500 fps .223 fired through a Bushmaster. The .223 will go through law enforcement body armor like it isn't even there. To say that that isn't a factor in weapon choice is to ignore the facts.
     
  4. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    548 is showing his true colors here.

    The 5.56 round has a velocity more in the range of 3,000 ~ 3,500 fps - anyone familiar with firearms would know that.

    Further, the round itself is easily defeated by body armor - bullet choice would be a factor, but a standard spire point would not go through.

    Bunker jackets would be of little use against either the 5.56 or the 9 mm round. The Nomex stops heat not bullets.

    Further, as a convicted felon the perpetrator, was breaking numerous laws by possessing the rifle. Said differently it was a BANNED gun (for him) - see how well those bans work??

    God bless the families of the firefighters - killed and injured.

    Merry Christmas.
     
  5. Rich219

    Rich219 Active Member

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    snyder is a gun grabbing troll.

    The guy was a felon and also had a pistol. In NY it requires 6+ months to get a pistol permit. You cannot possess a pistol without a permit, so how did he get a pistol?

    Proof that gun control doesn't work.
     
  6. 548

    548 Guest

    HSLDS - I wear body armor 10 hours a day, do you? Standard police issue body armor will not stop high velocity rifle rounds.

    If you want to talk about military body armor, that is a different matter to which I possess no knowledge. But the Marines aren't responding to structure fires and crime scenes, so with your permission we'll stick with the police body armor argument.
     
  7. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Never heard of a .223 Bushmaster cartridge? Is that like a .223 Remington, or a .224 Weatherby magnum? Seems awful slow. Lets have a Merry Christmas...

    Wayne
     
  8. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Gun control works, BAN all military style semi auto rifes and high capicity magazines and it will work. Turn in all these weapons to be distroyed. Severe fines and prison if your caught with one. Hunters don't need 30 round clips to go hunting.
     
  9. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    HLDS--And Rich219 the A4 dealer- what planet are you living on?

    Firefighters in your world and the local police wear military plate armor?

    I dont think so-- so the easily defeated argument just holds no water

    There is also the fact that typically the police only wear torso type protection-

    One of the firemen were hit in the lower hip area and one in the sholder and thigh I believe so again your statements show you know absolutely nothing about the day to day life of these first responders.

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene

    PS- and I am not saying to take away all bushmasters but your argument just doesnt have any logic as to obtaining the weapons--- the more you have out there the easier it is to obtain- not the other way around-- again HLDS- math might not be your strong suit

    HLDS--I do think police having to respond to a situation where these weapons are being used is a tough thing unless you want to mobilize the national guard full time and have them escort every police officer and fireman with armored vehicles and full plate armor on every call
     
  10. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    548,

    Have it, don't wear it often... Do have the bunker coat and have worn that often, so what gives you the right to decide how well THAT works against a bullet?

    Again, you show your lack of understanding of ballistics.

    "High velocity rifle rounds" means little when considering how they perform against vests. Much more a factor of bullet design and composition as well as the ballistic coefficient (as relates to cross sectional density) of the bullet as a part of a whole.

    You remind me of Rod Wheeler (DC police) who claimed that 'hollow point bullets are designed to easily defeat bullet proof vests' as opposed to full metal jacketed ones (I paraphrase).

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...
     
  11. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    A federal tax stamp permit would be a better way to own these guns. Get a FBi back ground check, photo id and finger printed. Anyone else is banned from owning or selling such guns.
     
  12. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Gene,

    Nice to see a knee-jerk response.

    I made no claim concerning the body armor - merely responded to 548.

    I never said firefighters wear body armor (police style or military style).

    My comment concerning a 'ban' stands true. Here is a sick person wishing to do harm. No ban has/would stop him. If not guns I am sure he would have found another way to reach his end.

    You are the first to state WHERE the victims were hit. I do not know if this is true or not, but I will allow you the benefit of the doubt.
     
  13. 548

    548 Guest

    Sorry Wayne, didn't type it well, I amended it to show I meant a .223 round fired through a Bushmaster.

    To everyone else, my bad, I underestimated the velocity by 500 fps - sorry again.
     
  14. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    snyder, since you've gone off the deep end, and, your obviously now subsidized by Bloomberg's $$$$$, please show examples where these have worked anywhere where individual freedoms are still an important value to individuals.

    Not any country I can find.

    Nigeria, a deadly attack on a church, 5 killed.
    Citizens ask that the firearms laws be relaxed to allow thems to protect themselves.
     
  15. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    HLDS--I will ask again- what planet are you from?

    You state ""High velocity rifle rounds" means little when considering how they perform against vests. Much more a factor of bullet design and composition as well as the ballistic coefficient (as relate sto cross sectional density) of the bullet as a part of a whole."

    Sectional density directly translates to the amount of force for a given area- thus the same amount of force across a smaller area is going to mean more penetration-

    Balistic Coefficient is a mathematical computation (will vary from actual) of the comparative effect of bullet shape and drag when it travels through the air and has nothing to do with penetration ability other than maybe a slight decrease of one shape to another on velocity and thus engery at longer rangers

    This is basic stuff HLDS_ and you are showing your ignorance while attacking a professional - Mr 548

    If I can help you- let me know in the future before posting- I might be able to screen your posts

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  16. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    They need to ban Ballpeen hammers also, That's what the perp used 17 years ago to kill his grandmother with, they let him out to kill again.

    I'd rather have .223 varmit rounds flying at me rather than someone with a 30/06 bolt gun that knows what they were doing.
     
  17. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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  18. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Let's see... An AR-15, a 38 revolver and a shotgun.

    Federal law would give him 25 years in jail for each gun - total 75, plus five for each round of ammo in his possession - figure 30 in the AR, six in the 38, and at least three in the shotgun- that rounds out near 195 years added to the 75.

    A few spare mags for the AR or rounds for the other guns and this guy should have been locked away forever.

    When will you learn that it ain't the tool but the tool user??
     
  19. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Gene,

    It's called physics.

    You show that you know little if anything other than what others have told you concerning the physics of ballistics.

    I've taught this often.

    Let me ask you a question.

    Which do you think would do more damage - a car driving slowly over your foot, or a ten speed bike with rider??
     
  20. 548

    548 Guest

    HSLDS - You test my patience with your confrontational twisting of words. So in an effort to maintain my reputation of using words and not emotion, this is my last response to you.

    Never did I "decide" how well protective fire fighting clothing performs in regard to ballistic protection nor did I suggest it was an adequate replacement for ballistic body armor. I surmised (no proof, just reasonable suspicion) that a 1200 fps 9mm round would do less damage than a 3000 fps .223 round after penetrating fire fighting clothing.

    HSLDS - everything I've said is factual or reasonable. I quit listening to you when you applied your expertise to body armor which was complete bullshit. Merry Christmas
     
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