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Another 1100 Issue/Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, May 27, 2011.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    I hope I'm not becoming a pest with my questions about my 1100. I had a serious malfunction that seems to have bollixed up many parts. I found that the plastic buffer pad on the rear of the bolt is damaged and the firing pin is broken.

    Brownells quickly sent out a new firing pin and retractor spring. All was going well with the reassembly when the feed latch (spring?) popped out. It seems to have been slid into place and held there with the front (small) trigger plate pin.

    It seems to fit back into place by sliding in the groove from front to back, but it sure doesn't hold. Can anyone offer a suggestion for repairing it - OR do I need to seek professional help (back to the factory)?

    Larry
     
  2. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Someone a while back on this board suggested you glue it back in place.

    ----

    I used 5 minute epoxy on mine about 5 years ago and it work just fine for singles and multi-feeds. Clean that groove with alcohol real well. Apply epoxy and insert feed latch. Use clamps to hold in place until glue sets.

    After that, WHEN REMOVING/INSERTING TRIGGER PINS, PUSH THEM TOWARDS THE EJECTION WINDOW. Do that and the epoxy should last a good long while. Pushing the pins away from the window is the cause of the feed latch being knocked loose.

    Chris

    ------

    I use a re-staking tool sold by Brownells to secure the feed latch, but in a pinch you can secure it back in place with a punch and hammer.

    Any repair shop can do it for you, maybe a one minute job.

    * You can shoot the gun with it not being properly secured, but it will fall out everytime you remove the trigger.
     
  3. twoatloweight

    twoatloweight Member

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    It must be staked in place.
     
  4. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    3,064
    As I was reminded when I recently found I was missing an interceptor latch retaining ring - If it's a target gun, e.g. firing one or two rounds only, you can remove the interceptor latch mechanism completely. One less thing to break.
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    I find it better to glue it in place with epoxy. Glue it, line it up with the trigger pins, and clamp it in place until the epoxy sets up. HMB
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Staking is the correct fix. Not difficult. If you feel that is beyond what you want to attempt, any decent smith should be able to do it for you for less than what you could ship the gun back to Remington for. Not to mention a whole lot quicker.
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If staking is such a great fix, why do they keep falling out of the factory prepared guns? HMB
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a correct direction to drive the pins out, and to drive the pins in. They should always travel AGAINST the bar, pushing it towards the side of the receiver. Never away from it.

    I would not call people who do not know this "idiots", though. The sad fact is, not even Remington mentions this in their manuals.

    I've heard of the epoxy method. It has worked for some people. Never tried it. Won't comment on it.

    A competent gunsmith can stake the bar back into place. I have a couple of old used 1187s that have this problem, and will eventually take them to a gunsmith.
     
  9. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
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    192
    The staking of the feed latch should be a permanent fix, and the direction of pin removal (when a feed latch is installed correctly and aligned with the front pin hole) will make no difference to the feed latch or the retention action.

    The process that dislodges a feed latch that is otherwise fine and aligned with the pin hole (and then may make the difference in the install/removal pin drive direction) is the activity of the bolt/action bar being withdrawn and released to spring forward against the action bar retaining edge of the feed latch while the trigger plate front pin is absent- usually while the trigger plate assembly is removed from the frame.

    The action bar striking the feed latch tip under spring pressure is capable of inverse upset of the metal swaged to stake/retain the feed latch, and if the feed latch is slightly off line to the pin hole at that time, the trigger plate front pin may be incapable of causing the feed latch to slide back in place when contacted by the small chamfer/bevel of the trigger plate pin end. If that pin hole fails to align, the pin will probably be contacting with the flat end of the pin and dead-heading the hammer force against the feed latch material rather than inserting through the hole.

    In other words, a properly staked feed latch is not going to just fall out, and the factory method is no failure if common sense prevails in maintenance and R & R.

    Epoxy is not something that I would consider except for emergency fixes when nothing else was available- like duct tape on a leaking heater hose in the car. It may get you out of a jam, but if the epoxy failed the same way that staking failed (action bar striking/dislodging) then you also have a big mess of plastic (cured epoxy) to remove from the feed latch slot in the frame.

    The big problem with epoxy or other glues is the possibility of filling in behind the feed latch in an area needed to provide clearance as it bends during operation. Bet the glue-endorsers never mentioned avoiding that possibility. If the feed latch tip cannot travel across the usual arc, it may either bind or increase the spring bending force necessary because the proper feed latch spring freedom has had some length bound or restricted and it must work with less spring length available. A shorter spring making the same tip deflection must have greater force input.

    Using a consistent pin direction is not a bad idea, in theory, but may have absolutely nothing to do with feed latch staking failure.


    Kirby
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, I disagree on the pin. In and of itself, you are correct, a properly staked latch will not become unstacked if the pin is put in or out fom either side.

    But....

    As you point out, if the bolt slams forward without the trigger guard in place, it can loosen the staking. From then on the alignment of the holes may be imperfect. That's when the pin runs into trouble. It will finish the job that the latch beating started.
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Fix the problem by staking the latch or fix the problem by using epoxy to glue it in place. Either way, it has to be done correctly inorder for it to work properly. HMB
     
  12. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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  13. Model32Shooter

    Model32Shooter Member

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    I've used regular Super Glue on several different 1100's and I have yet to

    have one fall out.

    It's not staking but it seems to work pretty darn good!!

    Clean, apply Super Glue, line up with pins and hold in place with a couple

    small padded clamps.

    Worked perfect for me!!

    Bob
     
  14. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

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    Glad to see that you essentially agree with my assertions, Brian.

    I do not see any disagreement between us, since you do admit that the pin has no effect on a properly located and staked feed latch.

    Your only bone of contention is that the pin coming from the wrong direction will possibly further loosen a feed latch that was loosened already by a goofy mistake in handling of the partially assembled bolt and action bar assembly.

    The way I look at it in that light, is that a nail in a tire is already a problem, so pulling out the nail will only make the air leak faster, not magically repair the hole.

    Damage done already cries out for repair, and you did notice that I was not looking on pin direction with disfavor- just that it was not the mechanism of latch staking failure- as was stated by another unknown author in the epoxy repair description.

    --------------------------
    Pushing the pins away from the window is the cause of the feed latch being knocked loose.
    --------------------------

    The other unspoken point is that someone sliding a pin into the frame and being almost immediately obstructed (by a feed latch that has moved by bolt/action bar strike) may be more likely to withdraw that pin when only slightly inserted to check for hole obstruction, whereas a pin installed from the opposite side and meeting an obstruction when nearly completely inside might be more likely to get the amateur hammer treatment. After all, it is so far inside that the removal may seem less favored an operation if there is a chance to smack it home. The hammer rules, remember?

    Potato, potatoe, tater, what the heck.

    Kirby
     
  15. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Update.. It seems that the superglue "fix" is popular. I have sound residue on both the spring and the groove. I plan to clean the area, apply glue and clamps. As I have access to a staking tool, I'll probably do that as well.

    Now, to figure out how to remove and replace the plastic breech bolt buffer. The one that's in the gun is yellow and seems damaged. I ordered a new one from Brownell's. I suppose I'll need to remove the firing pin from the bolt and pry the old one out. Looks like a very tight fit.

    Larry
     
  16. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    Every gunsmithing book I've ever read states that pins are always driven in and out from left to right, looking from the rear of the gun. A design convention, I guess.

    A small bump of weld can be placed at the inside top edge of the ejection port, midway, to deflect empties down and forward. I believe trap model Remington 1100's and 11-87's already have them.

    Kiv
     
  17. frostyman

    frostyman Well-Known Member

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    Staking it in is easy. Just make sure you have it so the pin holes line up and use a small chisel.

    As for why it fell out in the first place, I can tell you first hand what NOT to do. I had the bolt locked back and removed the barrel. I then knocked out the pins that held the trigger in place (and they also help secure the feed latch). Well the bolt slams shut and rips out the feed latch when you do that.

    The gun will function fine even if you don't state it or glue it if you can put it back in place and get the trigger to slide in (and get the pins in place). But to reduce your headache either glue it or stake it.
     
  18. lesharris2305

    lesharris2305 TS Member

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    Staking tool from Brownell's is cheap enough to buy and use even on a one use item.
    FWIW the tool is also used to stake 870 and 11-87 latches.
    Epoxy works but be carefull where and how much you use.
    Les
     
  19. DODGEMAN

    DODGEMAN Member

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    Jan 26, 2007
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    that staking tool from Brownells works and is fun to use. I do think the one I bought was 80.00. Really works good though.
     
  20. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    Staking tool from Brownells $34

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9495/Product/REMINGTON_870_1100_SHELL_LATCH_STAKING_TOOL
     
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