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ANDY'S CUSTOM SHOP - NEW YORK

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by cdan12, May 28, 2007.

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  1. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    same here,model 42 there for 10 months,I talked too someone about 2 weeks ago (not andy) and told him I wanted my gun returned ,ready or not,I have not received it,and don't think I will, Dan Witcher
     
  2. Pivot 3

    Pivot 3 TS Member

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    I received my 42 from Andy two weeks ago. He is still in business as far as I know. I think reaching Andy by phone is almost impossible. When someone does answer the phone its either an employee or a caretaker. The caretaker sent the gun. My last contact with Andy himself was 5 or 6 months ago.
     
  3. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    Did you get the right one ? dan
     
  4. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    Good morning Dan: I have cut an assignment to look into your concern and ensure the FFL is in compliance with regulations. Once the field work is complete I will inform you of our findings. Please feel free to follow-up at any time but I believe we may be a month or so out from the completion.



    Sincerely,

    Ed Larouere
     
  5. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    This is the current thread going on at Shotgunworld.com




    Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:46 am


    Post subject: Andy...


    He has my 1928 Model 12 16 gauge...been several months...

    To his credit he did call me and tell me that he had it; he indicated it would be a while.

    However, I am concerned that his "going concern" might cease "going" and I
    might never see my gun again...

    I wish his health well.

    I fear that my gun was not "qued" in the system based on a first in, first out basis. I'm sure he'd rather work on a Model 21 but...well


    kivaari


    NRA Endowment Member

    Texas State Rifle Assoc Life Member


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    only winchesters

    Moderator

    Joined: 09 Dec 2004

    Posts: 1605

    Location: Shingle Springs, CA

    Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:13 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...


    Hello Kivaari: I've been dealing with Andy for almost 7 years now. I can share this, on the average my projects take 4 months. These have ranged from just a "rib job", to complete restorations.

    Andy will not start a rib job for an example until he has a hand full of guns that are the same. IE 16ga with 28 in. barrels. Or 12 ga. with 30 in. barrels. The cost of setting up for one particular gauge is expensive.

    Also since Andy does both Nickel Steel guns as well as Winchester Proof Steel guns, Nickel Steel is the hardest to reblue. If the temp. isn't just right the receiver and other parts may turn "plumb color". sometimes he ends up "rust blueing" the entire Nickel Steel gun. After blueing is complete he will hold it 30 days to ensure it doesn't turn.

    Not knowing exactly what you sent your gun to Andy for, I can only tell you what I've experienced, rib shortage, back log in checkering, so he had to contract out. I sent one Md 12 that had a bad pitted area, that took much longer to polish and keep the contour for the rib, it was polish rib fit check, polish rib fit check. If your gun requires any of the lettering or numbers to be recut. He sends that out to Bill Adair in Tx. Bill has a 10-12 week back log. Sometimes you don't know if this is going to be required until the polishing has taken place.

    Don't "rush" Andy, he is an artist if you will and he has done some fantastic work for me. At the 4 month mark you might call,email, or drop him a post card. I would not worry.

    If you sent your gun to him for a "major" upgrade, IE: engraving, new stocks, turning it into a Pigeon, this will even add more time. If your gun was found to be excessively worn, like the nub on the action slide, this will require some time to repair. I could go on and on. But when your gun is complete, you'll be happy. Andy has always done right by me!

    Regards Dave


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    thomasartbutler

    Moderator

    Joined: 08 Apr 2004

    Posts: 3062

    Location: Virginia wishin for Tejas

    Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:14 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...


    Who is Andy? Why does he have your gun? If you're unhappy why not just get it back?

    Details man, details.

    If the man is in poor health, I wish him well.




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    RolexDr.

    Tournament Grade

    Joined: 03 Sep 2003

    Posts: 176

    Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:10 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...


    Andy does top quality work

    i have never had a gun done by him, but many of my friends have

    its worth the wait

    as a watchmaker i know how the backlog can be (i have had pocket watches for2-3 years looking for and making parts)

    give him a chance to let you know status

    remember if he is on the phone he is not fixing your gun or anyone elses

    JAmie



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    only winchesters

    Moderator

    Joined: 09 Dec 2004

    Posts: 1605

    Location: Shingle Springs, CA

    Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:16 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...

    Hello everyone: This is for Thomasartbutler: when it comes to the Winchester Md 12 there is only one "Andy"! of www.andyscustomshop.net If you have a "pre-64" winchester shotgun that needs help Andy is your man, period.

    Regards Dave



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    natty bumpo

    Crown Grade


    Joined: 23 Aug 2004

    Posts: 3160

    Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:45 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...

    TAB: I think I have this right, Andy J Wojtowycz (Voi-ta-vitch0 was employed by the Lefever Arms Co and the Winchester Custom Shop in the early 80s. This was The Lefever in Lee Center NY, that as started by Frank Lefever, a grand son of Uncle Dan and continued by his son, Robert, after Franks passing in 1964..in the early 80s, Andy bought The Lefever Arms Business and equipment, As well as the Lefever name and continued the custom work and the Winchester 21 and 12 work


    Bushrod........... PS.. Dave, feel free to correct me on any errors...



    ----------------------------------------------------




    only winchesters

    Moderator

    Joined: 09 Dec 2004

    Posts: 1605

    Location: Shingle Springs, CA

    Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:34 am

    Post subject: re: Andy...

    Good morning everyone: Well Bushrod you have a better understanding of Andy's Lefever background than I do.

    When Andy worked in the Winchester Custom Shop, he was fortuneate to meet John Durkin one of the best "wood carvers" Winchester ever had, and learned about the wood grading, and carving secrets. He also met John Kusmit (I think it was John and not Nick) and learned about the engraving process, as well as Pauline Murle, Winchester's last engraver. Who he currently contracts with.

    There were/are lot of "methods" Andy learned from the greats that other gunsmiths just don't know about Winchesters, period.

    Finally, you missed one Bushrod, the Md 42!! Andy is the only one I will allow to work on my 42s period. While Andy works on many firearms, he is a "true" shotgun gunsmith!

    Regards to all

    Dave



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    natty bumpo

    Crown Grade


    Joined: 23 Aug 2004

    Posts: 3160

    Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:46 am

    Post subject: re: Andy...

    Oh yeah, the pint sized Model 12, nice little gun, but only half enough sarrels for my liking.. Sold my last one almost 30 years ago for $425


    Bushrod



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    Kivaari

    Tournament Grade


    Joined: 22 Jul 2005

    Posts: 125

    Location: McKinney Texas

    Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:50 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...


    Well, Andy is not answering his phone.

    I'm getting emails off board that the health issues rumor is false and people are hiring attorneys???

    People are hiring attorneys????

    Good grief....what's really going on up there?

    I guess I'm going to have to go to Utica to recover my property???

    kivaari


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    thomasartbutler


    Moderator

    Joined: 08 Apr 2004

    Posts: 3062

    Location: Virginia wishin for Tejas


    Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:38 pm

    Post subject: re: Andy...




    I just peeked at the site he's got, some impressive work.

    surely we have members in Utica NY who can comment on the state of affairs at the shop?

    I just might have a gun to ship to this Andy.

    Thanks for the info sessions, natty and only winchesters.
     
  6. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Here is a copy of one of those emails I received.

    I'm not one for spreading rumors, so

    If it's not, I'll remove it....


    Hello Doug,
    I felt a bit compelled to E-mail you regarding Andy's Custom Shop. Normally it is not my style to be overly descriptive but in this case I feel I should do so. Stated directly, Andy is cheating people!!!!!
    He has several lawsuits against him, and with the amount of complaints filed against him with the A.T.F. he just may not be in business much longer. His long term partner, Henry Paprocki and I are friends, and Andy has stiffed Henry for his pay and Andy has had to hire a lawyer. Also, Henry had to take a job elsewhere because Andy's checks were bouncing and I had to use an attorney to get back my Model 42!!!! Also, in regard to his Father's death, Andy has not had a conversation with his Father since Andy was teenager and this is just a cover B.S. story. Now it is worse but I have said enough.

    XXXXXX(name omitted by me)
     
  7. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    I received this email 2 days ago.

    Doug
     
  8. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    the contact number for the atf is 716-650-4060,edward larouere , dan
     
  9. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    Yes, Yes and Yes, Dan
     
  10. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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  11. cdan12

    cdan12 TS Member

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    email sent Jim, Dan
     
  12. Trap2Day

    Trap2Day TS Member

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    Well...not sure what it means, but I called Andy's tonight and his voice mail was working again!...I e-mailed him and it went through (got a receipt), and I was able to fax him a copy of my e-mail!

    Maybe there is hope after all.
     
  13. jdwck

    jdwck TS Member

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    I hope whoever has sent thier gun and a deposit to Andy J. Wojtowycz (dba Andy's Custom Shop, aka Andy's Gunsmith Shop) and reads this is sitting down, has a pair of clean underwear and an oxygen tank nearby, because... you've been had.

    Taken.
    Hornswaggled.
    Hoodwinked.
    Duped.
    Ripped Off.

    Andy has had two of my guns for over 8 months, and after about the same amount of time of trying to reach him by phone, email, fax and letters, none of which he has responded to, I have conducted my own investigation and this is the conclusion;

    IMMEDIATLY, DO WHATEVER YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DO TO TRY AND GET YOUR GUN BACK. DON'T WAIT ANOTHER DAY!!

    Andy was living off the deposits gun owners sent him, the Ponzi scheme collapsed, and now he is in Big Trouble.

    Andy owes thousands in back rent and has been evicted. By the end of this week (07/27/07) the landlord with the Marshall's asststance, will padlock his door, so even if he wanted to, Andy has no way to work on the guns (formerly) in his possession, or generate income to pay back rent or return deposits.

    Inside Andy's Custom Shop, aka (Andy's Gunsmith Shop), scattered about, are approximately 80 guns (at least) of all makes models and calibers, many in various stages of disassembly.The only guy who can make heads or tails of it all, does not care, and might go to jail.
    No, let me rephrase that....HE MIGHT GO TO PRISON, NOT JAIL, because for at least a year, Andy has taken guns and thousands of dollars from people and has not returned either, and he won't even give people the RESPECT of returning phone calls, emails faxes or letters.

    I don't have to tell you, that the sentimental value of some of these guns is irreplaceable and the monetary value of others is in the thousands.

    Guys, some of your guns are going to be gone for along time, or for good because;
    1.. As stated above, once the landlord changes the locks on his door, anything in there becomes possession of the landlord, and by law they can throw the contents of the premises out in the street. Of course the landlord won't do that, but he does not have the man power, nor is it his responsibility to catalog and try to return guns to the rightful owners. Because some the guns in there have been reported stolen (what do you do when somebody takes your money and gun, won't return either one, and won't return phone calls, emails faxes or letters, FOR ALMOST A YEAR IN SOME CASES ?), now the ATF enters the picture.
    This gets to be a sticky situation for the landlord, so not wanting to be charged with possession of stolen property, etc. his choices are to turn them over to the Utica police, or the ATF.

    2.. If a crime has been committed (interstate fraud, wire fraud, theft, possession of stolen property, etc.) some of the guns might be held as evidence.

    3.. Many of these guns are in various stages of disassembly and restoration.

    4.. Just as it is with Andy's landlord, I don't think it is high on the ATF's list of priorities to catalog and try to return guns to the rightful owners, besides how easy do you think it will be reverse check a gun that was a gift from a deceased relative, handed down through generations, bought or swapped from a friend with a handshake and no paper?

    5.. Andy is being sued by several people.

    If he was realy sick, an honest man would know his reputation is at stake and he would have had his wife, girlfriend, sister, brother, friend, hunting buddy, rabbi, etc. whatever, at least make a good faith effort to contact or reply to the people whose money and guns he has, and explain to them that he was sick.
    I believe the reason he did not do this, is because he was not allways sick for the past year or so, DID NOT CARE ABOUT HIS REPUTATION, and he knew what he was going to do, which was intentionally, willfully and maliciously take money from people and he wanted to continue taking their money.

    Henry Paprocki and others that worked for him, warned people that Andy was cheating people, and they were dismissed as disgruntled employees.

    Andy betrayed many people, including friends who loaned him money, and now he won't even give them (his friends who loaned him money), the RESPECT of returning their phone calls, emails, faxes or letters because he has no intention of paying them back.

    It is responsibility of those who have been ripped off by Andy, to warn others in the community and hopefully spare them the time, money, anger, stress, misery and heartache of loosing a treasured heirloom. Not to mention the humiliation and embarrassment of being ripped off.
     
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