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And..They're..Off....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Stl Flyn, Jul 25, 2012.

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  1. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    And..They

    That didn't take long!
     
  2. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    I really don't see a case against the theater, unless there had been a history of altercations or violence at this theater, that would have put the management on notice to have security on the premises or an alarm. However, it looks like the lawyers are going for the deepest and only pocket that they can try to get to.

    This lawsuit maynot survive a summary judgment motion, but its free advertising for the lawyers who will no doubt be interviewed and grandstand on the morning news shows. The media will love them up really well for about 3 days to a week. About equal to slightly more than 15 minutes of fame.

    John
     
  3. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Local news cast here says they plan to sue the police department as well, although I can't figure out why, they were there 90 seconds from the first 911 call.
     
  4. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Must be a town full of ambulance chasers! or snake oil salesmen!
     
  5. Oscar Ray

    Oscar Ray TS Member

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    The Theater had the no firearms policy, they have a duty to protect you since they prevented the patrons from protecting themselves with firearms. I would not be so quick to dismiss these lawsiuts. When a company prevents you from protecting yourself, they assume a higher responsibility and it looks like it may come back to bite them in the A**.

    Oscar
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    And then the media will bring up how little the employees were paid to work there, no bennies, unqualified, taken advantage of, yada, yada, yada.

    It will be big business against the poor people that got shot instead of the psycho who pulled the trigger.
     
  7. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Of course it didn't take long and it's hardly a surprise given the litigous nature of our society. Naturally the plaitiffs will sue everybody in sight since it doesn't cost any more to sue 50 than it does 1.
     
  8. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    OscarRay, I forgot about the no firearms policy.

    I don't know about the theory of limiting one's ability to defend themself as as the basis for a lawsuit. I haven't researched or read up on that theory.

    Nevertheless, if the theater puts such a no firearms policy into effect and fails to enforce the policy in a manner that would be considered reasonable by an objective ordinary person, such as securtiy guards conducting pat downs or walking patrons through metal detectors, I can see that being a question of fact for a jury to determine whether the theater owed such a duty to the patrons and if the theater breached that duty. The damages are certainly there and a jury could find the breach of duty to be the proximate cause of the wrongful deaths. I just didn't see the duty of the theater, until you mentioned the no firearms policy. I don't think it is too much of a stretch for a jury to determine that if the theater feels its important enough to have signs and a policy, they should enforce it.

    This case may very well survive a defense motion for summary judgment, and it probably has settlement value. It would be interesting to know at what point in time did the theater put the no firearms policy into effect. Was it before or after the April, 2012 shooting at one of the churches in Aurora. It is probably irrelevant come to think of it, because either way, the theater management probably had notice of the possibility of violence in an unlikely venue (church) and that a person who was legally carrying a gun was able to limit the number of people killed in a prior instance. After giving this more thought, it would be a speculative argument that the outcome would have been different, however, depending on the jury it could work, and result in substantial verdict. The theater certainly can argue the all or some of the Plaintiffs' damages were proximately caused by the intentional acts of the shooter and that he bears all or some of the liability.

    I'm still trying to figure out how the police were negligent, and at a loss on that one. It is somewhat hard to feel sorry for the theater if it put the policy into play and then didn't enforce it properly. If this ever makes it to or through a trial and appeal, it will probably be taught in every law school tort class.

    So where do you practice law Oscar?

    John
     
  9. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    I will assume that since the patrons knew the No guns policy, that they assumed the risk.

    What this may do is get some businesses to think twice about being a criminal magnet in the future.

    BTW,,,,IANAL.....
     
  10. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    bigdogtx, you are referring to contributory negligence or comparative fault. It certainly seems like it could be argued, but I think a judge or jury would find it distasteful to actually allocate any type of fault to the victims or the estates of the deceased victims.

    I cannot disagree with your personal thoughts on this, I just don't think it will happen in court. I agree with your thoughts on the fact that no a gun policy at a business or venue certainly opens the door of opportunity a little wider for a criminal that is smart enough to put 2 and 2 together.

    What does IANAL stand for?
     
  11. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    I'm betting IANAL stands for I Am Not A Lawyer- do I win a prize?
     
  12. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    I read recently that we have about 5% of the world's population, but 65% of the world's lawyers.......... nothing more need be added.

    Kip

    PS

    I take that back, it's time to stop deporting illegals and start deporting the lawyers. Now, that makes sense.
     
  13. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    And now since the shooter sent a package to some doctor, and it wasn't read they will sue the doctor for not reading it in time

    Then slimy lawyers will be coming out of the woodwork
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    R. Kipling,

    I take offense to that statement of deporting Lawyers. My brother is an Attorney and I have a good mind to sue you for saying that. :)

    Seriously though, not all Attorneys are sue happy nor even believe in that. My brother happens to be one of them. He is a very hardcore Republican and pro gun all the way. He has a CCW and puts the garbage behind bars instead of trying to make people rich over petty things. He hates the ambulance chasers and speaks up about it every chance he gets. Just Say'n he may be in the minority but they are not all bad.
     
  15. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Just read a very sensitive but inquiring article that asked what a six year old was doing at a midnight showing of a PG13 rated movie as well.
     
  16. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Many news articles as well as some people on here have mentioned the 6 year old and questioned why the child was even there.

    PG-13- Parental Guidance suggested for children under 13

    In other words, anyone under 13 must be with accompanied by an adult. As long as this child was accompanied by an adult, I do not see why this is relevant to anything. It may not be the choice of every parent but it's certainly not against the rules or any laws.
     
  17. Oscar Ray

    Oscar Ray TS Member

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    L2S,

    I am not a lawyer, but spent 29 years in Law Enforcement and saw some pretty interesting things in a court room.

    I agree, society today has become to litigious, I have personally seen businesses that have policies of "No Weapons Allowed" taken to task in court for not protecting their patrons. Drunk college kids that get into a fight, then 1 of them gets shot or stabbed and a few months down the road, the establishment is named in a law suit for failing to protect the patron.

    I am not saying I agree, but there is cause for uncertainty as to law suits.

    As the saying goes "You NEVER know how a jury will react or vote".

    I am acquanted with several lawyers, and many of them have said the theater with its policy of "No Frirearms" does have a duty to provide more security.

    We shall see, as this all unfolds

    Oscar
     
  18. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    John G. thanks for the explanation of the IANAL acronym. No prize, just appreciation for answering my question.

    I thought there was a report that the shooter, kept an emergency or exit door opened/unlocked and brought the guns in through an exit. The theater could be off the hook possibly if an alarm should have sounded and he disabled it. The actual facts and application of the law to the facts could be interesting to say the least.

    Oscar, I thought you had some exposure to the law. That was a pretty good observation of what is to come.

    Personally, I don't see a problem with all lawyers, there are a good number of them that give the whole bunch a bad image. However, I have seen a case where a half of a family was killed and the other half permanenty injured by a negligent semi-tractor driver, and the trucking company's insurance did not want to pay policy limits and tried to argue that it should only be required to pay a state minimum coverage of $50K. Fortunately, a few good lawyers got the insurance company to cough up the policy limits which were substantially more, after a lot of discovery and depositions. The money won't replace the family members that were killed, but it will help the permanently injured ones come close to living a normal life with all the necessary phyisical therapy, and modifications to the home, along with lost income earning ability of the injured parties.

    If everybody was honest and took responsibility for their actions or errors, you wouldn't need lawyers. But that is not the world we live in. Most people are sorry about their actions when it causes harm to someone, but they don't have the money to pay for problems they have caused, and insurance companies won't remain profitable if they pay more in settlements or indemnity than they receive in premiums.

    John
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    L2S, we just went through all that in Wisconsin with the recently enacted CCW law.

    Oscar is right, If ANY concern posts to disallow firearms in their establishment they take on the liability of protecting the occupants.

    This was very publicly discussed in the papers this last year.

    HM
     
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