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And now they want the guns of Veterans...

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by HSLDS, Feb 22, 2013.

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  1. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Oh boy, it's really starting...

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/shock-report-veterans-receive-letters-from-va-prohibiting-ownership-or-purchase-of-firearms/

    copy and paste, or click URL above
     
  2. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to quote from section 11.f of ATF Form 4473. "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?" Answer yes to this question and you are not going to be able to buy the gun.

    How does the letter to veterans (which I am) differ?
     
  3. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    "The letter provides no specifics on the reasons for the proposed finding of incompetency; just that is based on a determination by someone in the VA."

    "In every state in the United States no one can be declared incompetent to administer their own affairs without due process of law and that usually requires a judicial hearing with evidence being offered to prove to a judge that the person is indeed incompetent. This is a requirement of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that states that no person shall “… be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law…”."
     
  4. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    This has been debunked multiple times but keeps appearing--- there are so many things wrong with this post that one cant even begin to comment but I will say that anytime you are going to have someone committed that you do in fact have safeguards in place

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  5. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    They are also want to cut down on the suicide numbers. The gov hates those law suits that they created in the first place.
     
  6. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    From what I read, the military is dealing with a suicide epidemic, and is encouraging soldiers/sailors/airmen to consult with mental health professionals to help deal with PTSD or other problems. Is it that big a stretch to believe that anyone who takes them up on the offer may later be judged to be incompetent to possess a firearm "for their own safety"?
     
  7. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    On the positive side, I was in my local gun store Wednesday after leaving the trap club.


    While I was in there, one clerk was conflicted. He had a customer from another State, not a Colorado resident, a vet., recently discharged and discharge papers in hand. Seems he was wanting to buy two lower AR recievers.

    After the clerk conversed with the store owner, he sold both lowers to the vet.


    While I was watching this transaction, I thought of Gene in Illinois and Gene in Iowa. Gene-Genes

    I was glad to see the supply of AR's on store shelves again. Saw a couple Colt 22 AR's on the shelves of a Big 5 sporting goods store a couple days before.
     
  8. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Gene,

    While I appreciate your input, this is from The Drudge Report, not some third rate blog site, so I have to give it more credence and might suggest you do the same.

    That does not mean it is true, nor does it mean it should be ignored in passing...

    Yakimaman & GunDr,

    The point of the article is that an undetermined person - not a legal proceeding gets to make this decision over our vets. This from a system that chose to label vets as potential terrorists...
     
  9. lbshootin

    lbshootin Active Member

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    I am a Disabled Veteran, I have not recieved any letters from the VA in over 10 years, i just keep getting my disablility check on the 1st of every month!
     
  10. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    The internet is showing a lot of reports on this story, many of them saying " ___ hours ago."

    There are pictures of the letters.


    Checked "Snopes," nuthin'
     
  11. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    This same story has run countless times over the last 2 years

    I posted a detailed response to one of these - bottom line is having PTSD is not being judged mentally incompetent

    We could go on and on but my responses to that previous thread are out there- where some Vet from Iowa- Vietnam era on here wanted to ban every modern day veteran from collecting disability or possessing a firearm--- he felt one or another- not both should be allowed

    Here was one of my posts back to him

    Cowboy- WTF

    But just because you want to know-- no you are incorrect

    "PTSD is a mental disorder that falls under Anxiety Disorders, which includes under it panic and obsessive-compulsive disorders. Approximately 7.7 million American adults age 18 and older, or about 3.5 percent of people in this age group in a given year, have PTSD.

    PTSD can develop at any time, but frequently occurs after assaults, such as rape, mugging or domestic violence. Terrorism and natural or human caused disasters and accidents may also play a causal role in PTSD3. As this relates to firearms, the question is when does a mental disorder rise to the level to prohibit the possession (including purchase, carry, take transfer of) a firearm. This is a complex question that is reduced to the opening questions in this blog post.

    Under the United States Code, Chapter 44, which covers “Firearms”, it is illegal and a federal felony “. . . if person has been adjudicated as a mentally defective or has been committed to any mental institution” for he or she to possess a firearm.



    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  12. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Golly,


    I thought they could not put anything on the internet that was untrue.


    Wow, i feel like.........an Obama supporter.
     
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I can't take anything Gene posts at face value. It's ironic he criticizes Drudge for accuracy when his own track record for accuracy is woefully lacking.
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here is prima facia evidence of the VA proposing to rate someone as incompetent to handle their VA benefit payments, and the VA notes that if they determine they are incompetent, they will not be allowed to own firearms.

    No adjudication. Just a determination from the VA.



    View attachment 196601



    View attachment 196602



    View attachment 196603
     
  15. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Brain don't confuse the resident legal tag team with any facts, they don't seem to be able to read or comprehend anything they do read, as they know all, if you don't believe that just ask them an they will tell you

    And one will claim you hate the military and Mr Lowercase will criticize your use of the English language
     
  16. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Looks like Genes chickens are coming home to roost?
     
  17. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    This is what is needed is for the smoking guns to be put out there everytime one of us is accused of being paranoid for no reason...Gee, I just cant understand why??
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    What do you expect from an Idiot Out Walking Around?
     
  19. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    If you want to keep your guns you can't get the med help you want. They the Gov save money. If you agree with them for help you loose your gun rights. They win again. Its screw you either way you go.
     
  20. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    You all think the VA is bad wait till the your home insurance wants to know some things about your home. Wait till they come to your home and start taking pic for so called insurance reasons. With some if they find out you have guns or reloading equipment your screwed. They came to my house and I had to let them take their pic's. Now I have to tell you that my house is 170 years old. My reloading room is in the basement. He didn't want to go down in the basement. I jsut looked at that as sound luck. But there is one room I just wasn't going to let him in and that was where the guns were. He wasn't happy at all that he couldn't get in there. I just said it was a private room and that he wasn't going to get in there. He then tried to get me to take pic's of the room. What is the diff if you or I take the pic's? NONE. You will then know whats in the room. NO you may not take pic's. The less that they know the better off you are.

    That and because our house is 170 years old and not looking like a newly built house with all the polish they dropped us. That was the main reason for the inspection and we knew it.

    The same thing is happening with your med insurance and doc. They will ask if you have guns in the house or are you around guns. Just say no and that will be that.
     
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