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an interesting convo with Butler Arms today

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by goatskin, Jul 20, 2012.

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  1. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Butler said they were a-l-m-o-s-t ready to ship, that they were tinkering with the action bars(?) whatever they are. (I don't know automatic terminology.)

    I asked him abt 'the usual failure', and he said they have 2-3 guns with over 20k rounds through them, and there is no pattern, so far: set screw on the rib fall out, dirty ejector didn't, occasional feed issue.

    Reloads and steel-headed shells? At their local club, one of their loaner guns regularly shoots whatever reloads the borrower has. Not a problem. Same with GC, Win Universals, Rio, Wally-world Fed T&F, etc.

    I did not ask abt the warranty, nor what kind of life they expect from an aluminum reciever, but I did ask why the did not opt for titanium if they were making a no-bullshit, serious-as-a-heart attack target gun. He said they thought about it, but cost and difficulty of machining, and yadayadayada.

    The two most interesting answers I got were:

    - Yes, you can have a barrel w/o choke tubes; it is 35tho constriction as they get it, and it is forcing coned and polished as is.

    - Yes, you can get a gun without stock, or they will fit the head, and leave the square bulk of timber behind you can shape and finish yourownself.

    It's an interesting concept and gun.

    Bob
     
  2. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    So, what have we learned? They still haven't shipped any guns.....
     
  3. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    So they are actually starting a company, by promoting a product first. Then making sure the problems that arise from the demos are fixed before manufacturing, and shipping it out to the consumer, so that they do not get a bad reputation from the get-go, before they even get off the ground. Fantastic!!!!!! We know that the shooting sports crowd is not critical at all, correct? We are the group, with patience and understanding beyond compare.

    Can't imagine what the cost would be if they did use titanium, and would people be willing to pay the extra? Aircraft Aluminum is pretty strong, and light weight. Beretta 391 Urika is made with aluminum receivers. Have not heard much about those.

    I think they are going about it the right way.
     
  4. dave-320c

    dave-320c Well-Known Member

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    I have now had the chance to shoot the Beretta UGB, the new Fabarms semi auto trap, and the Butler in my quest to find minimum recoil.

    Though the Butler is much more expensive, it is hands down the better trap gun for me. Its pointing almost reminds me of the Winchester Model 12. The Butler's recoil is minimal.

    The UGB had a lot of mechanical noise as it cycled, which I find distracting. The Fabarms felt like a dead weight in my hands, but the construction seems superior to the 390/391 semi autos; the 390's pointed better for me than the Fabarms.

    Butler is taking a bit of additional time to try to get it right. For that I applaud them. I would rather have them vet the shotgun, than to put the onus on the purchasers. That will save a lot of time shipping the gun back to the factory for design and quality issues. A good warranty will take care of any other issues.

    Just my opinion.

    Regards, and good shooting,

    Dave
     
  5. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    What's a "convo"?

    Keller
     
  6. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Keller .. 'convo' is an adaptation to fit the 54 character limit on titles. :)

    Stl Flynn, we agree. 'Bleeding Edge' technology can be a pretty uncomfortable place for all concerned. Structural aluminum is pretty tough stuff, but I was thinking more abt the K-80 Lightweight receivers and their issues in heavy demand 10-12 years ... and how the receiver exchange was (not) handled.

    Unlike the A-10, which had longer delivery times, there's a lot of new engineering in the Butler, and for a serious games gun (v. a nice, general 'shooter') spending time getting the little things - that only arise during use - right makes good sense, but it is still frustrating.

    Dave ... yup, pointability matters more than most things. The UGB reminded me of shooting a Humpback Browning ... you could hear everything that was going on inside it. In a duckblind? eh ... on station 5 and you broke the 1st 22? ... another matter. I have not shot the Fabarms, but I have never found a Beretta auto of any series that I liked shooting. That's just me, of course, but ...

    410, you're a grumpy gus, and the gun is not shipping yet: both thing are true.

    Bob
     
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