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AMMO BAN HAS BEGUN

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by STOS, Mar 13, 2009.

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  1. STOS

    STOS Member

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    Location:
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    The DOD Dept Of Defence has just ordered the destruction of all of its used brass.There will be no more used military brass available for reloading.Thank You Mr.obama.
     
  2. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Do you have the URL of a recent article on this that you could post? I would be interested in posting it on my Second Amendment Sisters forum.

    Thanks,

    Jennifer
     
  3. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    I was just on the government surplus sight and viewed many auctions that have 5.56, 7.62, 12 ga, 45acp, 9mm expended cases and they say "mutilation not required"
     
  4. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    I read this also on a rifle forum.
     
  5. stillmisses

    stillmisses TS Member

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    Called a buddy of mine that routinely buys large lots of small arms military surplus brass. He told me that there were some quality questiontionable lots of fired brass that were ordered destroyed on a lot to lot basis this past summer and fall. He just completed two auctions that were not affected of 223 and 308 brass.
    He told me he has heard this internet rumor and has received no officialnotification that all brass is to be destroyed.
    Mike T.
     
  6. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Mike T, I couldn't find anything on the internet about it. If anybody can, I'd sure like to see an article on it.

    Jennifer
     
  7. STOS

    STOS Member

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    Location:
    North Idaho
    Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.



    If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable.



    Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009.



    Sincerely,



    Government Liquidation.







    __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3935 (20090313) __________

    The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
     
  8. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm
     
  9. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    http://www.govliquidation.com

    Dear Valued Customer:

    Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

    Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

    Thank you,

    DOD Surplus
    15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
    Scottsdale, AZ 85254

    ============================================================

    Dear MSSA Friends,

    Another serious problem has just been created to add to the critical ammo shortage in the U.S. Read my letter to Senator Max Baucus about this below. An agency of the Department of Defense has just directed that all military fired brass must be destroyed.

    I highly recommend that you send emails to U.S. Senators Baucus and Tester, and to Montana's lone Congressman Rehberg, asking them to get immediately onto fixing this.

    FYI, Baucus is Chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee. He could simply call the Pentagon and tell them that if they don't reverse this DLA directive that the Pentagon will suffer a mysterious budget cut of several billion dollars. Also, Baucus's former Chief of Staff, Jim Messina, is now Deputy Chief of Staff at the White House. If Max called Jim and asked, Jim could fix this problem with a phone call too.

    I recommend you communicate with the Baucus, Tester and Rehberg staffers who are tasked to firearms issues. They are:


    Baucus - "Heather O'Loughlin" heather_o'loughlin@baucus.senate.gov


    Tester - "Lillstrom, Alpha" Alpha_Lillstrom@tester.senate.gov


    Rehberg - "Abra Belke" abra.belke@mail.house.gov


    Tell them we simply don't accept the military destroying perfectly good brass that could be sold into the civilian market for private and commercial reloading.

    Gary

    ========================

    Max,

    Greetings from Missoula.

    You called me on October 24th, 2008, to ask me to let you know if there is ever anything MSSA needs you to do for us and for Montana gun owners.

    Thank you. This is exactly such a case.

    In the email below from the Defense Logistics Agency you will see that DLA has effectively ordered the immediate non-sale and destruction of all once-fired military brass.

    Max, this is a HUGE problem.

    Why is this a problem? The RKBA is only as good as the ammunition supply for the firearms we own. The shelves of the Nation's sporting goods stores are essentially bare of ammunition. The entire ammunition market in the U.S. is highly stressed.

    For example, I have six classes scheduled for April to teach Montana citizens gun safety and self defense with firearms. Students must bring 100 rounds of ammunition to these classes. I thought to check this week about availability of ammunition for my students for these April classes - the most common ammunition in .38 special and 9mm. Of four primary sporting goods stores in Missoula, three had NONE - at all! One store has a limited supply that it doesn't expect to last long.

    Against this background of ammunition shortage, about the only ammunition that continues to be somewhat available is that from second tier manufacturers who are remanufacturing ammunition from once-fired military cartridge brass. As of yesterday, that supply came to an end because of the DLA administrative decision to destroy ("demil") all fired military brass.

    Max, I have a lot more information about the national ammunition shortage, too much to put in one email. It is both a supply and demand problem. Without that lengthy detail, take my word for it that U.S. gun owners are very at-risk for their effective RKBA because of existing ammunition shortages. This administrative decision by DLA places a log on the back of a camel already sagging in the middle.

    We sincerely hope that you can do something to turn DLA around, and reauthorize the flow of once-fired, undestroyed military brass from the military to civilians and civilian entities.

    One final thought. The military can sell reloadable brass for $2.00 per pound. Brass that has been destroyed for reloading purposes and value sells for about 35 cents per pound. So the DLA is expecting taxpayers to pay DoD extra to make reloadable brass unavailable to civilian gun owners.

    Please keep us informed about what can be done and is being done to fix this serious problem.

    Sincerely yours,

    Gary Marbut, president

    Montana Shooting Sports Association

    http://www.mtssa.org

    author, Gun Laws of Montana

    http://www.mtpublish.com
     
  10. Mapper

    Mapper Member

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    Location:
    SW Michigan
    DANG!! I almost got through Friday the 13th unscathed. I cannot express how disappointed
    I am with Barry O and his minions.
     
  11. 27 YARDS

    27 YARDS TS Member

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    STOS
    you need to verify your information befor you start tootin' your horn...Know what the hell you are talkin' about....DON'T START RUMERS....
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    27, were you late for the bus this morning? Doesn't look like a rumor to me.

    And get spell check, it will increase your credibility.

    HM
     
  13. stillmisses

    stillmisses TS Member

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    Jennifer, After hours of searching, here's what I came up with.

    DOD sales LLc is not a gov agency, but a marketing business in Arizona.

    Govliquidation.com is a private auction company, that sells items bought from the Government at their auctions and resells it. They Currently have 6 auctions for small arms brass scheduled for april 3 thru 7 2009, If they were directed to cease all sales and destroy the brass, would they not have stopped or pulled these auctions ?
    http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/endecaSearch? Ntt=brass&Ntk=P_Lot_Title&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Nty=1&Ns=Lot%20Number|0&words=brass&cmd=keyword

    See auctions, 7121 5100, 71217230, 7121 8970, 7121 8971 all have spent small arms brass coded at the bottom "mutilation not required"

    The DLA Defense Logistics Agency, is a dept of the US military and does receive what appear to be directives from the DOD. After searching thier entire web site I was able to find a few things

    1). http://www.dla.mil/dlaps/dod/416021m1/guide.asp
    This link is the DLA website, DoD 4160.21-M-1 Defense Demilitarization Manual
    Download and read appendix 4, In reference to 50 cal and under The Only destruction I was able to find was for material OVERSEAS, and For Export (my Caps for emphasis)

    2). https://demil.osd.mil/demil_search.asp
    DOD demilitarization and trade Security and controls Program Website

    3).www.drms.dla.mil/publications/4160.14/section3/s3.pdf
    PDF DRMS-I 4160.14 Section 3 - Special Processing

    The actual guidance from DRMS

    DRMS-I 4160.14
    Section 3 - Special Processing
    Cartridge Cases (Fired Brass) - Expended
    Definition/Description
    Ammunition components consisting of cartridge and shell casings are subject to the International Traffic In Arms Regulations set forth in sub chapter M of 22 Code of Federal Regulations (22 CFR 120.1. et.seq). Once expended, they are processed as fired brass scrap,with precautions to avoid improper release of unexpended cases.
    Policy References/Authority
    DOD 4160.21-M and DOD 4160.21-M-1.
    Unique Processing Information/How to Manage Receiving: The ETID/DTID must include the appropriate DE MIL code or clear-text statement for each
    receipt. The turn-in must contain certification that the residue is inert. Two signatures, a certifier and a verifier are required. Opening sealed/banded containers invalidates the inert certification. DRMOs will inspect what is readily visible (open boxes and drums) to verify the absence of contaminants, such as live rounds. No other level of inspection is required.
    Not authorized for receipt from DLA Depot Recycling Control Points (RCPs).
    NOTE:
    Warehousing/Storage: Storage will be accomplished in a properly assigned DE MIL Code “A” or “B” scrap pile.
    Reutilization/Transfers/Donations: GSA regional offices are authorized to approve transfer to SASPs, for donation to state and local governments, surplus expended cartridge cases (under .50 caliber) for reloading of the cartridges.
    DE MIL: All expended small arms cartridge cases (50 caliber and under) are assigned DE MIL Code “E.”
    Expended shotgun shell cases are assigned DE MIL Code “A.” Expended artillery cases are assigned
    DE MIL Code “B.”
    Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End
    Use Certificates are required for these sales.
    Abandonment/Destruction: Used if specifically directed on a case-by-case basis.
    Property Accounting: DE MIL performed code “9” is authorized for casings assigned DE MIL Code “E” but no DE MIL is required. No additional unique property accounting required.
    The provisions of this publication apply to all non-A-76 sites and Government Personnel at A-76 sites. This publication may be mandatory or advisory to the Service Provider, as stipulated in the Performance Work Statement.

    Section 3 - Special Processing S3-79 February 2009

    From all I read this is another internet case of wrong or misundertood information, passed on and stirring up needless controversy.

    I may not have all the facts, but thats what I found so far.
    Mike T.
     
  14. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    I'm still unsure what this all means. If you look at my last post Fri, Mar 13, 2009 - 11:01 PM ET, it does seem that Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association is sure upset about this and is in contact with his legislators, so he must have seen something. I guess a few more days and maybe we'll have more information.

    Jennifer
     
  15. stillmisses

    stillmisses TS Member

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    I'm still not convinced one way or the other. NO ONE has provided a copy of this Supposed "Administrative Decision" from the DLA. As I said above, the latest regulations, and definitions as of February 2009 still show 50 cal and under, within the US for disposal is still class E and specifically exempted from destruction for use as a domestic reloading commodity. I'm still reading every publication and report, news item on the DLA website and still find no such communication to vendors, the public, etc. I plan to call the DLA Customer Support toll free Support number Monday to see if they will answer this question.
    Mike T

    Customer Support Network 1-877-DLA-CALL
    Toll-free number for customers to contact DLA.
     
  16. Jamesquinn

    Jamesquinn TS Member

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    Just another load of BS from some wacko site. There is no order to destroy brass except that which is defective. Here's STOS at work, spreading the manure.
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    From gibrass.com site:

    Effective Immediately

    Orders for all military brass acquired thru government auction is hereby

    suspended until further notice. If recent auction purchased brass is

    is declared unrestricted, all orders will be filled in order received

    I have been buy ing from Jeff Bartlett for 20 years, and this is a first.

    Say it isn't so.

    HM
     
  18. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    At the govliqudation site there are markers on the fired brass items that state B/Q status.

    I don't know any more. And it seems too late to stock up, there isn't much around.

    Waiting........

    HM
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There is no denying that many dealers have received the email from Government Liquidation. It exists, and has been confirmed numerous times by dealers.<br>
    <br>
    The question is, where did Government Liquidation get their information from in the first place? They cite information they received from the DLA (DOD).
     
  20. K4AA

    K4AA TS Member

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    This is all false. I refer you to the NRA website.


    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=12244



    JOE
     
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