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Americans like high scoring??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by wayneo, Jun 28, 2010.

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  1. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    With all the discussion about two or three holed targets, I got to thinking about how we (Americans) have change the rules of sports over the years to make scoring higher. And to some thats more interesting and exiting, and a draw to younger participants.

    Pro baseball lowered the Pitches Mound, home runs and base hits escalated.

    Pro football protects the Quarterback and Wide-Receivers, high scores are the norm.

    Pro basketball added the 3-point shot, and took away zone defense, scoring is through the roof.

    PGA and USGA changed rules on golf clubs and balls, -19 under par in a major.

    Interest in these four sports are at an all time high with all age groups.

    Lets look at a couple of major sports that have a global interest that are low scoring, and most of American sport fans could care less about them. Hockey, and soccer. DON'T START FLAMING ME, these are great sports, but they have not captured the majority of American interest because of 1-1, and 2-1 scores after 2 hours.

    In our sport of Trapshooting maybe higher scores is the American way?
    Wouldn't a 200x200 beating a 199x200 be more exiting to watch than low scores????

    I'm thinking the American spectator of sports wants to see scoring, and lots of it. They don't want to see defense, or a pitchers duel. I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is. I'm done with my rant.

  2. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Only problem w/ your dissertation would be that trapshooting is not regarded by most to be a spectator sport while the others are.
  3. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Northeastern MD @ the top o the Bay
    At my age ..I'd be happy to score at anything!
  4. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Oxford MA
    I think Hitapair sees the difference but just not quite the same way as I do.

    All of those sports that you mentioned have a fundamental difference from trap. They satisfy the non-participant in trap everyone involved is a shooter that enters these shoots. In Baseball, Football, Basketball, Hockey, and Soccer the participants are all paid Pros or part of a team. You asked,

    "Wouldn't a 200x200 beating a 199x200 be more exciting to watch than low scores????"

    Interesting thought but tell me in the end what is the difference between 199x200 and 200x200 isn't the difference 1 which is the same difference as 2 to 1 or 3 to 2 with a couple of hours invested in 200 targets????

    Also the major difference is the difference between shots fired and shots missed. Example hockey game the Black Hawks take 40 shots on goal and win in close 3 to 2 game. So what is the percentage of success in relation to shots fired. A lot less than 199x200 I can tell you that. Yet the fans at the hockey were happy. The shooter that got beat by one wasn't so where does it end?????

    I am not flaming you either I just see it differently than you seem to.

    BTW no other sport that I can think of has the success rate that trap has. At least not for the effort put in.

    Bob Lawless
  5. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

    May 15, 2006
    Put a shot clock on hockey and soccer and the games would be much more exciting. The "purist" however would revolt.

    Bowling, golf, poker, billiards, curling, and yes trapshooting are boring to watch for those not consumed with the endeavor.

    I really don't think it's the higher scores as much as it is the increased pace of the games.

    Guy Babin
  6. schockstrap

    schockstrap Active Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Almost Wisconsin, IL
    I think you're a little out of date on sports rules...

    The NBA has allowed teams to play a zone defense since 2001.

    The NHL has introduced several rule changes since the player lockout ended in 2005, with an emphasis on increasing offensive play:

    - zero tolerance for hooking, holding, tripping, slashing, cross checking and interference (i.e., they are supposed to actually call penalties for this stuff after ignoring it for decades).

    - two-line passes are now legal

    - the allowable size for goalie pads/equipment was reduced

    - goalies are only allowed to handle the puck in a restricted area in their defensive zone.

    - More room inside the blue line in order to give the offense more room to work on power plays

    - a team that ices the puck cannot change players before the next faceoff, basically keeping a tired defense on the ice longer

    - reinstatement of the tag-up rule that allows offensive players that are ruled off-side to go back to the blue line and tag-up to legally get back into the play.

    I think the real point in most of these rules, though, is to allow athletic "skills" to dominate the sports instead of brute force and/or flat-out cheating. It's more fun to watch a highly skilled quarterack play the full game, rather than see him get knocked out in the first 5 minutes of the game via a cheap hit after he throws the ball. MLB lowered the pitching mound because power pitching was dominating the game and certain teams were exploiting that by raising their mounds even higher than the 15 inches allowed at the time.

    The ATA decided to go in a different direction with their 2-hole target rule... Legitimize the cheaters and down-play skill. Personally, I'd get my butt kicked either way, but I think I would prefer the 3-hole target so that real skill stands out.

  7. hockeyref

    hockeyref Member

    Apr 17, 2010
    You are wrong on the Golf too.... The USGA changed the rules for the grooves on the clubheads this year that reduces the spin that the players can put on the ball basically to the level it was (equivalent of a tour balata Titelist of of the old V grooves) before Ping and Karsten Solheim came out with square grooves and sued the USGA and the R&A.

    They did this because the pros were getting more spin out of the rough than they used to get off the fairway.... It put a premium on hitting the fairways.... this emphasizes the skill required to hit good shots.
  8. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

    Nov 5, 2009
    <I><blockquote>"I'm thinking the American spectator of sports wants to see scoring, and lots of it. They don't want to see defense, or a pitchers duel. I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is."</blockquote></I>

    Sounds remarkably like the people of Rome in the last couple hundred years before the Roman Empire fell to the incompetence of its rulers. They no longer cared about how well gladiators fought; they just wanted to see blood and body parts all over the arena. And the more there was, the better the games were!

  9. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    Howdy Y'all,

    Personally I like all sports,and a 200x200 beating a 199x200 is as exciting to me as a 1-0 one-hitter baseball game(not saying I don't like a slugfest).I think its more of ones perspective of an individual game,or sport.

  10. Jerseyshooter

    Jerseyshooter TS Member

    Jun 8, 2009
    Certainly an interesting post. What I see is that we drive our shotgun sports into specialist events. To use basketball as an example Trap= Free throw shooting contest, Skeet= Dunking contest, Sporting Clays= Playing Horse. Individuals pick their speciality and then become experts. Do I see a trap shooter as "the best shooter"? Absolutely not. Skeet? Nope. Sporting Clays? Not really. All have different skill sets. All have different social aspects as well. Skeet is about cameraderie during the shoot. Trap has no social aspect while shooting...it is all about talking within your cliques afterwards. Sporting clays is much more like golf. All are fine, but at the end of the day, specialists HATE CHANGE...they get good at something and then don't generally want additional challenges. I think that is why you see a resistance to harder angles in trap....skeet shooters avoid Modern like the plague...Sporting clays wants their club to maitain their presentations from year to year.etc. Come on folks....CHALLENGE YOURSELF A BIT!
  11. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

    May 16, 2010
    It is difficult to compare sports because they all have diff. venues. Trapshooting is still part spectator sport, they build bleachers for it. The shoot-offs at Vandalia drew good crowds. A handicap shoot-off for a major title with some big names is very exciting. Can't compare to boring soccer,hockey. Hockey fans want to see fights & blood! Many NASCAR fans come to see crashes. I watched Roy Rogers shoot and could barely find standing room. With a pro division, handicap shooting would draw fairly well for spectators. A lot of family and friends,non registered shooters and registered shooters used to watch at the old grand. I have watched many with interest. Granted,a 16 yd. shoot-off generates little interest. I think Wayneo has some ex. points. Clyde Doll
  12. JH

    JH Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Interesting.....one way to formulate additional hypotheses would be to query the networks and see what were the highest rated sporting events (sustained the attention of most people)......

    I certainly enjoyed (NFL) Arizona beating Green Bay 37-36 last year (back and forth close contests usually mean higher scores).....

    Baseball is nauseatingly BORING!
    Soccer is BORING! (too yuppie, left-winguish, over privileged/pampered, metrosexual players in the USA)

    I have changed my mind about Hockey. The Blackhawks series was exhilarating. Lots of action. Low scores. But, lots of ACTION!
    Even NFL games can be boring if there are too many 3 and outs....

    Perhaps it is not scoring that is the issue, but the level of ACTION/INTENSITY that holds our attention....
  13. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

    Nov 27, 2009
    Why do you think pigeon shoots draw such massive money? High scores - hah!

    Massive challenge makes for massive money

    Helice is making some inroads on that and will probably eventually equal pigeons.

    And international trap is on the rise. Now why would that be? Perfect scores?
  14. sptnclays

    sptnclays Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Grosse pointe farms Mi
    International trap on the rise? Easy to increase 100% when you go from one shooter to two.
    Skeet and sporting used to be a down gun game. Many sporting club that throw hard targets are dying.
    Fitasc only events have poor turnouts. How about international skeet. Damn hard game. Keeps the 20 people that shoot it busy.
  15. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Jan 29, 1998

    All the other sports you mentioned do not achieve perfection. You don't know what the score will be until it is over. In trap, it is to the point if you don't break every target in every event you can't even make the shoot-off. A perfect score is expected from the top shooters when they participate.

    Of course, there are always a few bad weather days that stops the perfection, but even then you can't really miss more than one if you expect to win.

    What really is the point of having a 200 16 yard event at the Grand when it takes several more hundred in a row to win. Seems kind of silly to me, and I'm sure not going to watch the shoot-off night after night waiting for someone to miss. It is backwards.

    The last putt in The Masters to win is exciting if your a golf fan unless of course it is only a few inches. But if it is any length at all, there is no telling what will happen. Put Leo or plenty others on the line to break the last target and it would be a miracle if they missed it. The outcome is probably 99.99999% it will get broke.

    The count is 3-2 with 2 outs and the bases are loaded...anything is liable to happen the next pitch..the outcome is unknown!

    You could go on and on in other sports giving examples because the outcome is unknown and can change drastically from minute to minute. Trap shooting is different...it is perfection achieved time after time and it is to the point that if it is not, you simply screwed up.

    Mark Rounds
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