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Alternatives to shootoffs ??

3K views 29 replies 22 participants last post by  Pat Ireland 
G
#1 ·
When we elect to attend ATA shoots, we know that we are committing to long days at the club.We usually start shooting by 9 AM and often the last event finishes at somewhere between 5 Pm and 8 PM . Then shootoffs start. My thinking is that with all ready long days and long travel times the ATA should try to find some other way to settle tie scores.
Do others feel the same way?
Pete Giddings-Canada
 
#10 ·
Split the money if it is a money (no trophy) event.

If there is a trophy but its not a major shoot, ask the tied shooters if they would like to settle the contest with a game of chance, something like cutting cards. Many times they would prefer this method.

If you must shoot off, then be ready for that by keeping your events moving and separated by no more than 10 minutes between events. If you are short of traps then shoot 2 rounds per house before advancing a squad. You don't need to shut everything down to eat lunch either just keep the event moving. If your shoots take as long as you say then there is plenty of time for people to eat and relax without shutting everything down. Rotate your trap help to provide breaks for them but again ... don't stop the shooting.

You should look for the opportunities to improve the flow of the shoot anytime you don't hear gunfire.
 
#12 ·
I have been in a very few shoot offs and I would not want to see a tie decided any other way.

It is a shooting contest - not a coin toss or luck. Let the best man/woman win.

If someone is too tired, old, sick, etc they lose. It may be the only way an excellent shot will ever beat Leo. It was painful to watch him at the Grand but you had to admire him.

Last year - they named co-winners for the Clay Target Championship. Maybe after running another 200 straight in a shoot off, the participants could be polled. If one guy wanted to shoot they would keep shooting to the death. If they agree to share the top spot - that is OK.

Another option is to set 5 hole 55 yard targets for the shoot-off - all targets must be shot and only a broken bird would be "illegal". At least it is not a coin toss.

Don Verna
 
#13 ·
I'm with Don on this. I,ve shot off and flipped coins, but the only true deciding factor is a shoot off. Anything else is just plain luck, not representative of your shooting or mental game. I'm for a shoot off in Championship events, but can go along with a coin flip on club shoots where there is nothing to gain, but the other 1/2 of the purse that wouldn't pay for the shells used to shoot off.
 
#15 ·
I tied by breaking targets, I would prefer to win by breaking targets. This year at Sparta, the all knowing Tourneyment Director had all dbl.s & sgl.s decided by carry over except for the last day. It was not popular on the grounds. PS, along with eliminating all added money to class & category shooters.
 
#18 ·
At our Gun Shoot we give away a rifle for each 100 targets. After everyone has shot, a score among all those scores shot is drawn at random, and everyone with that score is in the shootoff, miss and out. Sometimes the shootoffs can get quite populated, while others may be won outright. For example, this year in our Event 5 (100 Singles) one shooter was really struggling with a gun that didn't fit and was beating her up. She finished with a 42, but her score was drawn, and she won the rifle without a shootoff. In contrast, in Event 1 (100 Singles) there were nine scores of 100, and 100 was drawn. We put in a wedge in the Superstar so that the targets were traveling about 70 yards, and set it in the #5 hole, and commenced the shootoff, miss and out. All nine guys had a shot from station #1, and then we moved to station #2, where the first guy from the previous round moved to the end of the line, and so on. After station #5 we had lost only about three of the nine, so we turned on the wobble feature. It took fifteen birds before we finally got a winner, but everybody, including the spectators, had a great time.

Event 2 (100 handicap) had a draw score of 98 (again high in the event), and two 27-yards shooters with that score. It took two rounds of 70-yard #5 hole targets to determine a winner on that one. On one of the doubles matches with a 95 draw score and a half-dozen participants, speeding up the targets and turning on the oscillation got it done in a few stations.

In situations like these, nobody wants to get into a marathon shootoff. As long as all participants agree, making the targets much tougher in speed and angle is a good alternative.
 
G
#21 ·
I suspected that this thread would draw out some"strong " opinions.
Most of these feel that ties should be settled by shooting. OK.....what about a suggestion of settling ties in any event by going to the HAA for the day in a typical one day shoot (singles,doubles,handicap) OR in a Championship type shoot (200 singles on Sat+100 doubles and 100 caps on Sun)?
Pete Giddings- Canada
 
#22 ·
I have spent many nights at clubs referring shoot offs. I don't like leaving the club between 10:30 PM and Midnight. Frequently, I drove four hours home after my state shoot and arrived at 3 AM because of shoot offs. I have also been in several shoot offs where I spent 2-6 boxes of shells to win a trophy that is, I suppose, somewhere in my attic.

I do not care for shoot offs. Others like them and that is fine. Just because I don't like them, that should not dictate how others feel about them.

I will admit, the doubles shoot off I won at the MD State shoot many years ago with my single barrel was fun.

Pat Ireland
 
#23 ·
Pat:

When you get into as many shoot offs as I would imagine you and the rest of the AAA shooters do, they must sort of lose their luster, but for the rest of us mear mortals when we get into a shoot off and I can't speak for everyone but for me my blood is pumping heart is racing and I'm on that day and I know it. I'm in the zone and I smell blood in the water. To have a coin flip is really a let down. If you really don't want to use 6 boxes of shells then I would agree to speed up the trap set steeper angels or what ever has to happen to make the shoot off go faster after all we are the 2 best shooters that day. We should be able to shoot any thing that fly's. To me that feeling is what its all about. Bottom of the 9th 2 outs tie score and your at bat or 2 seconds left on the clock tie score and you put up a 3 pointer from the baseline.

Shoot off and give us the thrill of standing up there and shooting with you AAA's.

Martin
 
#24 ·
Widowmaker,

Pat's comments are from the prospective of the worker bees that do the work and get no thanks or recognition. It sucks to start shoot-offs at 9:00 PM and that is part of the problem at we saw at the Grand.

I agree with using shoot-offs to decide a winner but this is a PITA for shoot management. The solution lies in making it less of a PITA.

It seems to take about 3 hours to figure out who shoots off and the squadding needed. And then, there may be a shortage of referees. So even fewer people wind up doing more of the work.

I do not have the answer. Smarter and more experienced people have not been able to figure it out. Maybe we should be thankful that Grand attendance has not increased significantly.

Don Verna
 
#25 ·
Don:

I think I understand the worker bee prospective but trophies stuck up in the attic somewhere ? To me thats no worker bee but just oh ho hum just another shoot out in Dodge City. I myself never forget to thank my score keepers and I also ask if I may be able to help clean up. Because I am relatively new to trap shooting that this PITA thing must happen just about every time that there is a shoot. I would think by now shoot management would know this and be prepared for it. In my world coming from NY you either fish or cut bait. Why even bother to have a shoot if its such a big PITA ?. I'm really not sure I understand the logic in this. Steer me in the right direction here.

Martin #0765881
 
#26 ·
Martin,
You are 100% correct. I love shoot-offs. See my first post.

Guys who have tons of trinkets and think it is a waste of time/shells (as Pat alluded to "I have also been in several shoot offs where I spent 2-6 boxes of shells to win a trophy that is, I suppose, somewhere in my attic.") can elect not to shoot off and forfeit - it is not a requirement.

Like you, I want to shoot-off every chance I get. Changing that is wrong in my opinion. When we have been at it for 20 years and we have an attic full of cheap "awards", we may think differently - but I do not think so. Competitors will always want to compete whether it is for the Clay Target Championship or a $15 pocket knife.

Don Verna
 
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