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Alternative to Don't Ask Don't Tell

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Bushmaster1313, Jan 29, 2010.

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  1. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Alternative to Don

    Even if open service would not have a negative impact on morale or the ability to get the mission done, there will always in our lifetimes be a reason for restrictions on soldiers with alternative lifestyles. The reason, security against blackmail.

    Right or wrong, it is an undeniable fact that many persons with an alternative lifestyle would choose death before being outed to their parents. No value judgment here, just fact. The fear of hurting one's parents has caused many with alternative lifestyles to take their own lives. This being so, blackmail is a very real real possibility anytime a non-outed person becomes part of the military. No value judgment, just fact.

    Accordingly, my alternative (actually an exception) to don't ask don't tell would be to mandate that persons with alternative lifestyles who do not want to comply with don't ask don't tell could serve so long as they can demonstrate that their being outed would not be a liability. The only way to do this would be to get proof that their closest family members know of the soldier's orientation.

    You might say that this is intrusive and an invasion of privacy, and you would be correct, but you would also be proving my point.

    Please note that I am not using this Forum to criticize any of the brave men and women who have given so much service and sacrifice so that I and my family can live free.
     
  2. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Add to the list of people who have to be informed the other soldiers in the unit.
     
  3. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Did you notice that all the commanders/generals just sat there after Obama's comment.
     
  4. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone disagree about the risk of blackmail?
     
  5. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    Not sure, Bushie. Something sounds "off" here, but I'm not sure what. If the rest of us don't know about somebody's alternative lifestyle, how does he get blackmailed? And if we do, then what is there to blackmail him about? Like I said, I don't know what it is, something just seems off. Maybe I'm thinking too hard. And another point might be that it seems to me more and more gay folks are already open about their lifestyle, which would make it pretty hard to blackmail them. I thought the original fuss that brought about the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was openly-gay people wanted to serve in the military, and if they're already out, where is the blackmail opportunity? I'll grant you that some years ago there was a good possibility of somebody being blackmailed because most gays were hiding it, but maybe not so much today? As I said, I don't know, but I sort of think that maybe it's not as big a deal today as it was a generation back. And too, if you think Mommy doesn't already know, you're probably selling Mommy short. Just my thoughts on the subject, YMMV.
     
  6. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Guys hiding things today??? I think not.. 20 years from now..being Gay might become mandatory..
     
  7. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    I srved 8 years in a military that would toss you out on your ear if you were "queer". Dont believe I could serve 8 days in what they have now.
     
  8. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Wrap 'em in a blanket.

    CSM Jon Reitz (ret.)
     
  9. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    How about passing a law that states, you can be as open and gay as you want but no "pooper packin' while in the service."
     
  10. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    Ah, the ole "blanket party". I had almost forgotten about those.....LOL.
     
  11. gun1357

    gun1357 Active Member

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    Most people would agree that sexual relationships can destroy a business situation. What would make them think a military situation would be any different? Ron
     
  12. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    The CO of one of the "boomers" in our location was gay. He literally was having sex with several junior officers on patrols. The threat was a lousy fitness report. If anyone doubts this happened , so be it. But it was witnessed by an IC electrician who was in the overhead (suspended ceiling) doing a repair. The CO retired as a Vice Admiral. I almost kicked in my TV when I saw the CO on the history channel.

    Phil Berkowitz ICC(SS) USNR-Ret
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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  14. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Should this new policy actually go into effect, then the most commonly used pick up phrase in the EM Club would be:

    "May I push your stool in?"

    Curt
     
  15. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    So picture yourself in a foxhole with a flaming queer hitting on you and the enemy is bearing down on you.....who to shoot first????
     
  16. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    They have already won the debate with the euphemism "gay" being used to describe a homosexual.
     
  17. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Fraternization is against the UCMJ and the proposed policy change will not alter that. Sexual harassment is also against the UCMJ, heterosexual, or otherwise.


    As far as the blackmail thing goes, there are many straight personnel in the military that have behaviors in their life that could make them very susceptible to blackmail. Adultery, fraternization, drug use, spouse abuse, illegal business endeavors, child abuse, financial irresponsibility, the list goes on… Those of us who hold TS/SI clearances in the government are all subjected to lifestyle polygraphs for that very reason.



    Beyond the idea of merely allowing gays to openly serve, there are a host of related complicated issues involved that must be addressed. For example, do gay couples get the same benefits as hetero couples for housing and co-location for orders? Would the civilian "wife" in a lesbian "marriage" be entitled to all the privileges of a traditional wife? Commissary privileges, military health care, etc. Most states don't recognize gay marriages. Some have for a time, but have subsequently repealed the law. The military has to figure all these angles out if they allow gays to openly serve.


    Of course changing the policy/law will not in itself have an immediate effect on the number of gays already serving. All of us who've served for any length of time have been associated with gays. I had a fellow female Chief in my Mess who was gay. She served in the same division with me. She was a kickass Chief, a dear friend and a butch--go figure. She was honest with us while off duty, but never acted unprofessionally when on, or off duty.


    All this blanket party stuff is posturing, against the UCMJ, and detrimental to good order and discipline. It's the same mentality that justifies to the twisted the condoning and participation in lynching parties, witch burnings, and the pre-meditated murder of others with whom we disagree.



    I'll admit it is a very delicate issue with many ramifications. It'll be addressed though and hopefully with reason, intelligence and with the well being of our armed services paramount.


    I'll tell you this-- I'd much rather serve with a competent, dedicated, hard working, brave gay than with any of the hetero fat, lazy, no-loads that I had to deal with.


    Guy Babin
    USN RET
     
  18. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I like the old days when people kept their sexual perversions in the closet. If you have some deep psychological disorder, like homosexuality, keep it to yourself and your partners.
     
  19. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Hell I thought the way you could tell the gays was hanging around the airport mens rooms with the rest of the republicans. Dan
     
  20. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Guy:

    Thank you for your service.
     
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