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ALERT - Veterans Disarmament Bill

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Sep 17, 2007.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    www.gunowners.org/a091207.htm<br>
    Sep 2007<br>
    Veterans Disarmament Bill Could Come Before The Senate At Any Time<br>
    -- GOA provides Senators with several pro-gun amendments<br>
    Gun Owners of America<br>
    8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102<br>
    Springfield, VA 22151<br>
    (703)321-8585<br>
    "Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!" -- Patrick Henry, in his "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death" speech of March 23, 1775<br>

    <br>
    Wednesday, September 12, 2007<br>
    <br>
    The Senate could bring up the Veterans Disarmament Bill at any time, as a result of its passage in the Judiciary Committee a few weeks ago. The bill -- introduced by F-rated Rep. Carolyn McCarthy and Sen. Patrick Leahy -- is ready to come to the floor.<br>
    <br>
    Gun Owners of America delivered draft amendments to every Senate office yesterday, providing important changes that must be made to the bill. Among others, the most important amendment would make it clear that veterans suffering from PTSD are NOT prohibited persons, and thus, are not to be denied the ability to purchase a firearm simply because of emotional problems resulting from their service to this country.<br>
    <br>
    The Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to the McCarthy-Leahy bill, having stated on June 18 of this year, that "For the first time the legislation, if enacted, would statutorily impose a lifetime gun ban on battle-scarred veterans."<br>
    <br>
    Military veterans are justifiably concerned that this bill will legitimize the very thing that President Clinton did over seven years ago, when his administration added 83,000 names of veterans -- suffering from maladies such as PTSD -- into the NICS background check system.<br>
    <br>
    Proponents of the bill argue that this bill gives veterans a mechanism for getting their names off of the prohibited person list. That's like giving a mugger access to your home, but then stating you can hire a lawyer and pay THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of dollars to eventually (maybe) get your stolen items back.<br>
    <br>
    If the proponents are right -- that this bill will actually help gun owners -- then surely they won't object to friendly amendments that are designed to make it unmistakably clear that military veterans or grownups who suffered with ADHD as children will never be denied the ability to purchase a firearm, simply because they once had a "determination" from an anti-gun shrink that said there was the MINISCULE possibility that they could pose a danger to themselves or others.<br>
    <br>
    You can be sure that if the McCarthy-Leahy bill passes, it will just be a first step. Consider some of the bigoted statements made by celebrities and politicians which not only show their contempt for gun owners but their pompous thinking which leads them to believe that we are all crazy for wanting to own a gun:<br>
    <br>
    "I don't know that he's mentally qualified to own that gun." -- Democrat Presidential candidate Joe Biden, insulting a YouTube viewer during a debate after the man referred to his semi-auto as his "baby" (July 25, 2007).
    "Isn't it possible that we all have that bit of insanity in us? That's why I'm for gun control.... I don't really believe that a human being who feels [things] should have the option [that is, access to a gun] at their fingertips." -- Actress Jodie Foster, quoted in a Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence press release (August 20, 2007).<br>
    <br>
    And then there're the studies which will be, no doubt, used by liberal anti-gunners to strip away the gun rights from more and more law-abiding citizens, using the pretext that a shrink's diagnosis proves these people shouldn't own guns:<br>
    <br>
    "A quarter of the Afghanistan and Iraq war veterans treated with US government-funded health care have been diagnosed with a mental disorder, according to a study published Monday." -- AFP news (March 12, 2007)
    "The number of American children and adolescents treated for bipolar disorder increased 40-fold from 1994 to 2003, researchers report today in the most comprehensive study of the controversial diagnosis. Experts say the number has almost certainly risen further since 2003." -- New York Times (September 4, 2007)<br>
    <br>
    Even before the studies started rolling in, gun haters were already working the legal loopholes as best they could. When the Veterans Administration got caught adding veterans' names into the NICS system during the Clinton presidency, they defended their actions by saying it was "required by law" -- a statement which was just flat out false.<br>
    <br>
    But it's notable to hear what a spokesman for the VA said in an interview with WoldNetDaily (June 27, 2000). He said the most common way of finding a veteran "incompetent" is when he or she receives a formal rating of incompetency from a VA panel of medical representatives or from "a duly authorized VA medical center, government agency, or even a PRIVATE PHYSICIAN." (Emphasis added.)<br>
    <br>
    That's what HR 2640 is all about. McCarthy and Leahy (and others like Sen. Chuck Schumer) are forging the legal chains that will be used to keep hundreds of thousands -- if not millions -- of decent, law-abiding Americans from owning guns... not because of what a court rules, but because of what ONE INDIVIDUAL says.<br>
    <br>
    Over two hundred years ago, Patrick Henry warned about the "chains" that were being forged to enslave them. If he were here today, would he not warn us again<br>
    <br>
    Thankfully, there are many of you who are sounding the alarm. State groups from all over the nation are pumping out alerts to supplement what GOA is doing at the national level. Just yesterday, the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition (NHFC) called its members to action, stating that HR 2640 is a Trojan Horse, which sounds justified on the outside with promises of keeping "mental defectives" from having firearms. But when one takes a closer look at the details of the bill, the group said, it reveals "a huge expansion in those who will become a prohibited person; an expansion that could potentially include most Americans."<br>
    <br>
    In addition to pointing out how many shrinks could prohibit average Americans from owning guns, NHFC points out that many pediatricians could make similar anti-gun "determinations" (using the language of the bill) to disarm their patients -- since after all, these docs believe that "any household with firearms is 'dangerous,' even if they are properly stored."<br>
    <br>
    Good point.<br>
    <br>
    ACTION:<br>
    <br>
    1. Stay informed. GOA has a mammoth section on our website which both gives the specifics of the Veterans Disarmament Act and answers the claims made by supporters of the bill. Please go to http://www.gunowners.org/netb.htm to get more information, including the proposed GOA amendments that were delivered to each Senator on Tuesday.<br>
    <br>
    2. Alert others. Forward this alert to pro-gun friends and family and ask them to take action as well.<br>
    <br>
    3. Take action. Please contact your Senators, even if you have already done so. You can use the pre-written message below and send it as an e-mail by visiting the GOA Legislative Action Center (where phone and fax numbers are also available).<br>
    <br>
    ----- Pre-written letter -----<br>
    <br>
    Dear Senator:<br>
    <br>
    I oppose the Veterans Disarmament Act, which is being pushed by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (HR 2640) and Sen. Patrick Leahy. This bill will expand the 1993 Brady Law and disarm hundreds of thousands of combat veterans, among others.<br>
    <br>
    I understand that Gun Owners of America distributed several amendments recently to every senatorial office to address the mistaken arguments that supporters of the bill have. I also understand that proponents of this bill are claiming it will actually help gun owners.<br>
    <br>
    They argue that this bill gives veterans a mechanism for getting their names off of the prohibited person list. That's like giving a mugger access to your home, but then stating you can hire a lawyer and pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to eventually (maybe) get your stolen items back.<br>
    <br>
    Well, if the proponents are right -- that this bill will actually help gun owners -- then surely they won't object to friendly amendments that are designed to make it unmistakably clear that military veterans or grownups who suffered with ADHD as children will never be denied the ability to purchase a firearm, simply because they once had a "determination" from an anti-gun shrink that said there was the MINISCULE possibility that they could pose a danger to themselves or others. That is what the GOA amendments are designed to do.<br>
    <br>
    I still believe that the Brady Law has done more to register gun owners and deny guns from of law-abiding Americans than to keep guns out of criminals' hands. But adopting these amendments will at least prevent an anti-gun administration from doing what the Clintons did in 2000 when the Veterans Administration added the names of some 83,000 veterans into the NICS system.<br>
    <br>
    Sincerely,<br>
    <br>
    ****************************<br>
    Support The Second Amendment Every Time You Call Long Distance<br>
    <br>
    Many major phone companies donate to anti-gun politicians and organizations. Thankfully, not all of them. FreedomFirstTelecomm is a solid and dependable long distance company. Now, they have agreed to donate an incredible 20% of your monthly long distance bill to GOA!<br>
    <br>
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    <br>
    Please consider stopping by http://www.gunowners.org/ffld.htm to check out the offer and sign up today.
     
  2. buzzgun

    buzzgun Member

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    I'm not a part of "Prozac Nation," so I have nothing to worry about.

    ...honestly, Brian...don't you think you're blowing this a little out of proportion?
     
  3. KelleyPLK

    KelleyPLK TS Member

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    352
    BETTER LEAVE THINGS ALONE ! STOP WORKING ON THE STUPID LAWS AND INFORCE 1/10 %ON THE BOOKS TAKE THE REST OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS BS OFF THE BOOKS AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHATS HAPPENING HERE IN USA . THIS COUNTRY NEEDS JOBS NOT VOTES FOR REDUNANT LAWS AND SIMPLETONS RUNNING FOR OFFICE . WE NEED CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS REDUCE CONGRESS SO THEY ARE LIKE SENATE 2 PER STATE RUNNING EVERY 6 YEARS ! SALVATION FOR THE USA !


    Pat Kelley
     
  4. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Having been with the NRA since 1958 as a Life member and long time Benefactor member, it is unfortunate that the NRA is now in the same class of appeasers as pre WWii Britain and present day France.

    They no longer stand for the gun owners, but, are like a lost soul trying to work out a deal with cannibals, hoping to be eaten LAST! (sigh)

    A lot of my volunteer work (read that FREE) depends on affiliations with this group, or I would shake the dust off my feet and walk away.
     
  5. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    The sponsors are typical liberal scum. They will take one slice at a time until they completely gun ownership.
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    All I can say is don't snivel and whine here when a few years down the road when this is expanded to anyone who has a prescription for a "mind altering" medication. Like ANY anti-depressant, Alzheimer's meds, had ADHD meds as a kid, Parkinson's meds, etc.<br>
    <br>
    Right now the International Association of Chiefs of Police want to add misdemeanor offenses as a reason to ban gun rights forever. A lot of us told you that the precedent set with Lautenberg would be expanded upon. The ball is rolling.<br>
    <br>
    You reap what you sow.
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The SECOND most ignorant creature is one who does NOT know its enemies.

    The MOST ignorant creature defends and collaborates with its enemies. This class of creature is generally EXTINCT.

    In the past, the NRA would be putting resources towards defeating this bill. Now, GOA and JPFO are taking the fight to those who would strip us of our freedoms.

    As a Benefactor member, I get an awful lot of junk mail from the NRA. Those wasted funds could be spent defending our rights instead of putting money in their coffers so they can collaborate with socialists and traitors.

    Stephen Holbrook is not the all knowing defender of freedom you apparently think he is. BTW, I was not diagnosed with PTSS from military service, but many were. I was one of the lucky ones. I came home and got on with my life.

    Ted Kennedy is a prohibited person, lost two brothers to murder, and despises firearms and firearms owners. Ronald Reagan was shot and later went along with the "Brady Bunch". Sarah Brady has made an excellent livelihood from her husband's shooting.

    I lost two wives who were murdered, and a step brother who was negligently killed by his best friend. This gave me a resolve to train folks not only to safely and competently defend themselves but also to enjoy sport shooting. I DID jump in, a long time ago.
     
  8. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Jimmy

    My home club has one of the largest SCTP programs in the nation, and I spend a lot of my time (and money) working with the kids and their coaches. The kids come first, and at times there is no field open for the old heads to shoot on.

    I have never gotten a penny from the NRA, and paid for ALL my training and credentials. I don't mention the NRA to young shooters. If they bring it up, I keep my opinions to myself.

    At my home club, neighbors who originally signed off on it have gotten deep funding from anti gun groups to close it. This has been going on for several years, and has run up $$$thousands in legal fees. It has cost the neighbors NOTHING. The NRA has not put in a DIME, saying they will not get involved.

    Halbrook's going along with the Disarmament Bill should tell you something about him, other than the biography in his book. The Bill would keep many folks that fought for their country from "being armed".

    I truly hope the NRA goes to bat for YOUR club if (when?) it is attacked by anti gunners.
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Jimmy

    The quoted part is a letter written to states Attorney Generals from the BATFE.


    "ATF has also begun the process of clarifying the Firearms Transaction Record (ATF Form 4473), the form that is completed whenever a person purchases a firearm from a federally licensed dealer. The new Form 4473 will make it clear, for example, that any person who has been found by a court, BOARD, or OTHER LAWFUL AUTHORITY to be a danger to self or others is prohibited from purchasing a firearm or ammunition."

    http://www.gunowners.org/ne0703.htm

    The entire letter may be read at the above website.

    Ramifications of this are noted by legal counsel for GOA. This may be read at the site listed below, if you are interested.

    "In the wake of BATFE's most recent letter of May 9, 2007, spelling out its current position on who is a prohibited person by reason of a mental defect, I have sought to lay out the current state of law. My conclusion is that, particularly in the hands of an anti-gun administration, there is a substantial danger that the term "prohibited person" can include the following:

    * Persons who are ordered by courts to be evaluated by psychologists or psychiatrists in connection with child custody or other proceedings (the so-called "Alec Baldwin proviso");

    * Persons who, in a wide variety of juvenile cases, are evaluated by psychiatrists because of school-related problems, and perhaps put on Ritalin as a result;

    * Seniors receiving home health care under Medicare who are evaluated by professionals for Alzheimer's;

    * Veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder;

    * Persons who are arrested and referred, without due process, for psychiatric evaluation, followed by a finding that the person has no mental or emotional problems or does not require commitment;

    * Persons whose psychologists commit them with no due process at all."


    WHO CAN "ADJUDICATE" A PERSON TO BE A "MENTAL DEFECTIVE"?

    27 C.F.R. 478.11 states that the adjudication may be made by a "court, board, commission, or other lawful authority."

    Anti-gun advocates have tried to create the impression in the media that "other lawful authority" means some judicial or quasi-judicial forum. But nothing in either the regulations or in BATFE's letter of May 9 says or implies this. "Authority" could be:

    * A school psychologist to whom "behaviorally challenged" kids are referred;

    * A psychiatrist commissioned by Medicare to evaluate seniors for Alzheimer's (an interpretation which is reinforced by the fact that such a finding by such a person is legally effectual for qualifying such a person for Alzheimer's grants);

    * A Veteran's Administration psychiatrist who evaluates returning soldiers for post-traumatic stress disorder (large numbers of these names have already been turned over to the FBI by the Clinton administration);

    * A psychologist who, under provisions of law, involuntarily commits a patient with no due process at all.

    A fortiori, the same person whose findings are enough to "adjudicate" a person as a "mental defective" are equally capable of being able to legally "commit" the person under the second disqualifying clause, within the terms of the statute.


    http://www.gunowners.org/ne0704.htm

    Trust, but verify.
     
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