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Adding too the Rib and Comb

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rio, Mar 10, 2009.

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  1. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    If you have a single barrel gun that shoots 60/40 and you add 1 1/2 inches to the rib.
    Then add 1 1/2 inches to the comb. Will the gun still shoot 60/40 ????

    Thanks
    Rio
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    No, a bit lower. About an inch and a half, as a guess.

    Neil
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    At close range Neil is correct. At normal target distance it will be the same as before the change. HMB
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Oh come on, Harry! How's that supposed to work?

    Rio, think of it this way. Say you were adding a 2-foot rib and 2-foot comb to the gun. Would you expect it to shoot in the same place?

    Neil
     
  5. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Rio,

    How long is your neck? 1 1/2" is quite a bit.

    ec90t
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Geometry, angles, things like that make it work. HMB
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Oh, geometry, angles, things like that . . .

    Hmm - really, I'd hoped for something a little more specific, hmb.

    Hogwash.

    Neil
     
  8. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    I JUST ADDED 5/8" TO MY BERETTA 303 TRAPGUN RIB AND THEN RAISED THE COMB 5/8" AS WELL. ON PAPER AND THEN SHOOTING STRAIGHTAWAYS-- THAT GUN SHOOTS EXACTLY THE SAME!!! NOW I WILL AGREE- YOU'D NEED A SMALL STEPLADDER GET UP ON THAT 11/2" RAISE ( ASSUMING THAT IS MEASURED FROM THE TOP OF THE FLAT RIB SURFACE)
     
  9. truthseeker

    truthseeker Member

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    Answer me this, if the gun shoots 90/10 at 13 yards then what is the pattern percentages at 40 (you cannot just multiply by 3 to get the pattern at 39 yards since the shot is still rising at 39 yards minus the 3 to 4 inches that gravity effects the shot)?
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    As the linked calculator shows, truthseeker, your question can't be answered since the percent changes as the pattern opens further out.

    Typical 75% values from real life might be 8 inches at 13 yards, 28 inches at 40 yards.

    That's why "percent" is such nonsense; "inches from point of aim at nn yards" is the only useful way to say it.

    Neil
     
  11. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    now thats a heck of a website!!!
     
  12. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    So Neil and all you other guys , if I would like to add say 1 inch to the rib, that way I would be able too level my eyes. Then what do I do with the comb so that the gun will still shoot a 60/40 pattern.

    Thanks
    Rio
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Just make the comb-change a tiny bit more than the rib one.

    The change would be so small you can't "make" it that way in advance what with the many things that are going to change when you add that much to the comb. Better to make it higher than needed, then sand and file it down so you see a bit more front bead over the mid, or a bit more rib, or whatever it is you see.

    Why do you think it shoots "60/40" now?

    Neil
     
  14. ddrsuz

    ddrsuz Member

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    Rio:
    If you go to the Keen Sight website and check in the "traditional bead barrel" section. There is a picture credited to Dennis. That is my gun, if you want to see what a 1.5" addition to a rib looks like. Mine was necessary because I am apparently related somehow to a giraffe and was having trouble getting down to my rib and still seeing out.

    d
     
  15. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Rio,

    Why not use a stock/pad/butt adjuster to level your eyes and allow you to shoot with your head and neck upright?

    Rollin
     
  16. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    If you mount the gun in the same place on your shoulder (and this is key), there will no POI change. The only effect of adding the same rise to comb and rib is your head will be more erect. The gun will shoot in the exact same spot - you haven't changed the geometry - only your head position.


    Joe
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Joe, I ask you. Say the rib Rio was contemplating was a foot tall. And he wanted to add a foot to the comb. Would it shoot in the same place - or a foot lower? After all, all he's changed is his head position.

    Neil
     
  18. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Neil,

    Although you are technically correct, for practical purposes, the vast majority will not notice a 1" shift in POI if we raise the sighting plane by 1".

    Essentially, there is no discernible change in POI.

    I cannot hold a gun steady enough to see a 1" offset at 30+ yards - where I hit the birds. None of us B shooters can hold well enough, or consistently enough, to notice a 1" difference.

    AAA shooters are not the norm. Maybe they can tell if a gun is shooting 1" lower. But, from my limited experience in patterning, they will need to shoot more than a handful of shells - as there are shell to shell variations that could be at least that significant.

    Don Verna
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    No argument from me on that, Don. It won't make any difference. But that's not what was asked

    Rio: "Will the gun still shoot 60/40 ????"

    And to that the answer remains no.

    Remember, people are saying _exactly_ the same (or worse yet that angles will take care of it:

    MRDucks: "The gun will shoot in the exact same spot - you haven't changed the geometry - only your head position."

    And all I'm doing is pointing out that what they say isn't true. It's not different enough to measure, but it's _not _exactly_ the same.

    I'm sort of assuming the Rio is estimating when he quotes 60/40 which really makes the difference a non-issue, nor do I think that adding an inch to a stock and making it fit again is any small task, but it's what he asked and I stand by my answer.

    The reason I make my point is that at close-up POI testing, that sort of thing can be detected and will make a difference in the final calculation if you make one, though I don't anymore.

    Sure I could have told RIO that he'll never know and that would be true too, but the geometric question is not one you can argue about; the gun will shoot lower.

    Neil

    Neil
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Confusing the issue, Russ? Here's what I wrote:

    Rio: "If you have a single barrel gun that shoots 60/40 and you add 1 1/2 inches to the rib. Then add 1 1/2 inches to the comb. Will the gun still shoot 60/40 ????"

    Neil: "No, a bit lower. About an inch and a half, as a guess."

    How can such a short, straight, and accurate answer be called "confusing the issue?"

    It's all this other stuff - call it "revisionist geometry" which is confusing the issue. It's all the people who think they can make something go away by pretending it's not there.

    Read Rio's post again. He did not ask if the difference is "much" or "practical" or "whether he should worry about it." He asked a straight question and got a straight answer.

    Neil
     
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