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Absolutely SICKENING!!!!

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by bigdogtx, Feb 10, 2012.

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  1. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    "According to KNBC, Los Angeles Unified School District officials began the process of firing him last year - but instead allowed him to resign in a settlement deal that protected his life-long benefits and paid him $40,000."
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have mixed feelings about this.

    Pensions and other benefits are earned. Until criminal law provides for forfeiture of pensions and other benefits, or attaches part of them as fines, or until the school district in court can prove a reason to not pay them in civil court, then pensions and benefits earned up until that point should remain intact.

    The reason is, this would create a criminal penalty in addition to jail time and fines. If this is something that is desirable, and it may well be, then it needs to be codified in law. Right now the judge can only levy fines and restitution on assets in a criminal case.

    In a civil case, the victims could also seek redress, and it would serve the molester right to see his pension drained by a lawsuit for counseling, etc.

    Another solution would be to pass a law providing for forfeiture in cases like this.

    We do not need ad hoc solutions. They must be legal and be codified in law.
     
  3. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    The crooked governors of Illinois that have been prosecuted and found quilty loose their government pensions. They stole enough not to need the pension anyway.
     
  4. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/09/local/la-me-teacher-20120209

    The school district is spending $5.7 million dollars to replace the entire staff of the school. New specially trained teachers in each classroom plus a social psychologist in each classroom.

    Lawsuits will be coming from union and the innocent teachers that lost their jobs, but not pay and benefits, until district finds other jobs for them. Parents aren't happy their children's teachers have been yanked from their classroom.
     
  5. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    More at link

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-02-09/la-miramonte-school-sex-abuse/53026218/1
     
  6. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I don't necessarily agree with Brian's analysis. This may be a simple matter of employer policy. Pension money isn't the individual's own money he has saved, like a 401k. It's money the government extends to him upon the achievement of certain goals - one of which might be crossing the "finish line" without having cheated. My understanding of pensions, and I'm not an expert, is that it's something you can potentially screw up and lose the morning of your last day at work, if you committed a serious infraction and that infraction is legitimate and substantiated.


    I think the Employment Law experts may tell us the government is in the clear to rip this guy's pension away, if he's found to have violated employer policies by an internal investigation.


    If so, I'm fine with that.


    I think Brian is making the same mistake a lot of people make about Social Security...they think it's something they "paid into" and earned, when in fact, it's just a system the government maintains, and what you get (or think you get) was never carved in stone. I'm generally not a big believer in folks who "think they have a deal" with the government.


    But hey...if this creep has some sort of contract, signed by the government and stating otherwise, let him produce it and show it to us. I'm betting he doesn't have one, and the Employment Law experts will say he's up shit creek.
     
  7. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    40 years ago he would be lucky to make it out of the county. Now it's not politically correct to give him his "just rewards".

    He should lose all his benefits. They were earned while he was contriving these acts instead of applying his time to his job.
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Quote: <i>"I think Brian is making the same mistake a lot of people make about Social Security...they think it's something they "paid into" and earned, when in fact, it's just a system the government maintains, and what you get (or think you get) was never carved in stone. I'm generally not a big believer in folks who "think they have a deal" with the government."</i>

    First, we do pay into Social Security. I realize our employers are the ones actually cutting the check, but it is compensation for my job, money that could have gone to my own pension if the government were not ponzi scheme stealing it at gunpoint from us. And yes, I expect that money back either in the form of monthly retirement checks or lump sum it back, because it was taken without my consent and to get NOTHING back is pure theft.

    And yes, this teacher is paying into his pension via his employer. Make no mistake about that. He earned it.

    My point is not to argue that this guy deserves to have his pension cancelled and whatever other benefits terminated. My point is it needs to be sanctioned by law. And if the law does not exist, then perhaps it's time to create one.

    But nothing like this should ever be arbitrary at the whim of any employer. Because you'll then have employers abusing it. We just had a school bus driver here fired because he had a bumper sticker of a Confederate flag on his pickup. An abusive employer who could get away with it could revoke his pension without checks and balances codified by law. It's bad enough when Obama and his cohorts don't even obey the laws. Now you want other government agencies to arbitrarily act without needing a law?
     
  9. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Either way you fall on this issue, blame it on the contracts and the idiots that wrote them and agreed to them. Just sayin' The devil is in the details.....

    Kip
     
  10. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    We are always somewhat at the mercy of our employers. That's just life in America (or anywhere). Don't like it? Get a different job. Take a non-pension, non-government job just like the rest of us working stiffs.


    Don't get me wrong, I don't like it...but why should government employees be special?


    And no...this teacher is NOT "paying into" his pension, no matter what you think. It's an entitlement, payable upon retirement, subject to the fiscal solvency of the organization holding the pension, and the completion of the employee's term of employment according to the terms set by the employer.


    It is not like a 401k plan where the money belongs to you. It simply isn't. Screaming at the top of your lungs doesn't change that.


    What union do you belong to, anyway?
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If your pension is an entitlement then you must either be self-employed or your skill set does not merit it.

    My pension is not an entitlement, and my skill set EARNS it.
     
  12. unplugged

    unplugged Active Member

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    I will not argue whether he should get a pension or not!
    Buty I'm suprised how ignorant many are about BOTH Social Security and private/public pensions! I get a pension and that money was VESTED as I worked!
    That means yes, real money was put in a fund for me when I retired! It was partof the WAGES I earned! And was not only promised but required by law to be vested to a given level by my company, for the day when I retired!
    Pensions are PART of our wages, as promised when you hire in! AND required to be funded (BY LAW) for each employee in the retirement fund after meeting the requirements.

    To think my SS was an "entitlement" is a pipe dream of the current inhabitants in Washington! I know how much was DEDUCTED from MY CHECK over the lifetime of my working LIFE! And it wasn't a choice! It was taken and promised to BE PAYED when I reach retirement age!
    SS would not be in the mess it's in if so many that NEVER WORKED OR payed a cent in SS were not GIVEN benefits THEY NEVER EARNED!
    Heck! There running an ad on TV around here saying "EVEN IF YOU've NEVER WORKED, you might be able to get SS"! Great thay are advertising to give away MORE to those that didn't EARN IT! But for ever working folk in this country THEY(the government) has TAKEN REAL WAGES and prosed to pay SS when we retire!
     
  13. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    The corporate world dumps salaried people with 28 or 29 years in all the time, for a lot less than child molestation. The early dismissals cause a full denial of the pension benefits afforded from 30 years of faithful service. I guess the public sector employees are special.
     
  14. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    The dumping of people in the corporate world with 28-29 years in is also sickening if those faithful employees lose their benefits. IMO, it is also sickening that O.J. Simpson's pension cannot and could not be touched when he lived in Florida, and likely not at this time.

    ...of course what the accused molestor allegedly did (this has not gone to trial, remember) is magnitudes, magnitudes higher, IMO, on a "sickness" scale. Too bad that individual did not ask for psychologial help to treat that compulsion years ago....often those doing the victimization do not feel "good" about the acts, but report a terrible feeling of guilt, shame, depression, anxiety, etc. etc. This is not to say the perp. is a victim, but to suggest that the perp. didn't know an adult way to handle his alleged demons. Another example from what I read is that Jeffrey Dahmer was repulsed by his unspeakably aberrent activities, but for some reason, continued to do that which repulsed him.

    Sad, sad, sad how many lives are highly compromised if not ruined...the victims.

    As a retired LAUSD certified employee, I also feel bad about the transferred teachers that are in limbo. No matter what, some suspicion will likely settle on then innocent, the highly innocent. We can hope that this will all oneday be behind us and that the school district will move on in a civilized manner.

    I do not feel that the situation is being handled in an effective manner either. I'm glad that I no longer work for that district, and, as I write this, am angry at its "leadership"...
     
  15. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    NO he shouldn't get anything but a pink slip and a kick in the ass to the street and to jail. The only good thing is when he goes to prison guess who's going to be the student and who is going to be the teacher. Justice will be served to him. LOL

    You all need to remember where this happened. The land of the fruits and nuts.
     
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