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about Justice Roberts - chess, not poker

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by wireguy, Jun 28, 2012.

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  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Dear RedState Reader,

    As you have no doubt heard by now, the Supreme Court largely upheld Obamacare with Chief Justice John Roberts writing the majority 5 to 4 decision. Even Justice Kennedy called for the whole law to be thrown out, but John Roberts saved it.

    Having gone through the opinion, I am not going to beat up on John Roberts. I am disappointed, but I want to make a few points. John Roberts is playing at a different game than the rest of us. We’re on poker. He’s on chess.

    First, I get the strong sense from a few anecdotal stories about Roberts over the past few months and the way he has written this opinion that he very, very much was concerned about keeping the Supreme Court above the partisan fray and damaging the reputation of the Court long term. It seems to me the left was smart to make a full frontal assault on the Court as it persuaded Roberts.

    Second, in writing his opinion, Roberts forces everyone to deal with the issue as a political, not a legal issue. In the past twenty years, Republicans have punted a number of issues to the Supreme Court asking the Court to save us from ourselves. They can’t do that with Roberts. They tried with McCain-Feingold, which was originally upheld. This case is a timely reminder to the GOP that five votes are not a sure thing.

    Third, while Roberts has expanded the taxation power, which I don’t really think is a massive expansion from what it was, Roberts has curtailed the commerce clause as an avenue for Congressional overreach. In so doing, he has affirmed the Democrats are massive taxers. In fact, I would argue that this may prevent future mandates in that no one is going to go around campaigning on new massive tax increases. On the upside, I guess we can tax the hell out of abortion now. Likewise, in a 7 to 2 decision, the Court shows a strong majority still recognize the concept of federalism and the restrains of Congress in forcing states to adhere to the whims of the federal government.

    Fourth, in forcing us to deal with this politically, the Democrats are going to have a hard time running to November claiming the American people need to vote for them to preserve Obamacare. It remains deeply, deeply unpopular with the American people. If they want to make a vote for them a vote for keeping a massive tax increase, let them try.

    Fifth, the decision totally removes a growing left-wing talking point that suddenly they must vote for Obama because of judges. The Supreme Court as a November issue for the left is gone. For the right? That sound you hear is the marching of libertarians into Camp Romney, with noses held, knowing that the libertarian and conservative coalitions must unite to defeat Obama and Obamacare.

    Finally, while I am not down on John Roberts like many of you are today, i will be very down on Congressional Republicans if they do not now try to shut down the individual mandate. Force the Democrats on the record about the mandate. Defund Obamacare. This now, by necessity, is a political fight and the GOP sure as hell should fight.

    60% of Americans agree with them on the issue. And guess what? The Democrats have been saying for a while that individual pieces of Obamacare are quite popular. With John Roberts’ opinion, the repeal fight takes place on GOP turf, not Democrat turf. The all or nothing repeal has always been better ground for the GOP and now John Roberts has forced everyone onto that ground.

    It seems very, very clear to me in reviewing John Roberts’ decision that he is playing a much longer game than us and can afford to with a life tenure. And he probably just handed Mitt Romney the White House.

    *A friend points out one other thing — go back to 2009. Olympia Snowe was the deciding vote to get Obamacare out of the Senate Committee. Had she voted no, we’d not be here now.

    Read my full thoughts here.
    Sincerely yours,

    Erick Erickson
    Editor,RedState.com
     
  2. Steve NJ

    Steve NJ Member

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    After being initially ticked off, thinking about it for 15 minutes the above was my conclusion also. Roberts is extracting revenge on Obama without anyone being able to say so. Much wiser then he is getting credit for at the moment.
     
  3. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    wireguy:

    Roberts ruling is neither chess nor poker. Its bullsh!t.

    In McCulloch v. Maryland Daniel Webster argued in front of the SCOTUS that, “An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy.”

    In his decision, Chief Justice Marshall said: “That the power of taxing it [the bank] by the States may be exercised so as to destroy it, is too obvious to be denied”, and “That the power to tax involves the power to destroy … [is] not to be denied”.

    Whether the socialists in Congress overreach via the commerce clause or thru taxation is completely irrelevant. We're toast either way.

    As for Erickson, his drivel includes the following brilliant comment, "he (Roberts) has affirmed the Democrats are massive taxers." Like that means squat? The slacker class couldn't care less. They don't pay any freakin' taxes.

    I won't play the spin game. The socialists won - game, set, and match.

    sissy
     
  4. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I remain unconvinced that Roberts, whose second amendment ruling was pointed and factual, doesn't have some long term ace up his sleeve. He absolutely did or did not sell us out, there is no in between.

    The power to tax in America is limited by the choices people make in who they elect. There is no unlimited power to tax, only the power ceded by the spineless American people to their representatives.

    The commerce clause, which I cannot remember being reigned in during my lifetime, just has been. By declaring Obamacare a tax Roberts has diminished the power of congress to misuse the commerce clause, completely changed the nature of the act itself from a "you are being given something" to a "you are having something forced on you" device, made it easier to repeal at the legislative rather than SCOTUS level, and forced the Dems to defend the largest tax increase in the history of America - in the middle of the second worst depression in our history.

    I am willing to at least be patient and see how this plays out. I'm hoping my initial reaction that I had just been stabbed in the back turns out wrong, and that Roberts is going to ultimately have the last laugh over the democrats and the president who declared SCOTUS a mere unelected body.

    Roberts has written his place in history with his decision. I find it difficult to believe this man intends to go down in history as a short sighted, back stabbing traitor who sold out his office and the American people.
     
  5. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    You act like Roberts is for you, but not for the others. If he's a true justice of the supreme court, he is for the people, not you or them. Get off it.

    Sissy, PLEASE tell me what is socialist about the healthcare reform.

    -Trappy
     
  6. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Trappy when you try and get a job after graduation & have to pay off any student loans; then you will realize you've been screwed. Plenty of openings in the Marines if you have the balls to join or welcome to welfare.
    Phil Berkowitz--you and your generation are FUBAR
     
  7. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    This is a golden opportunity for the people to rise up and put Washington D.C in it's place.

    We must have a Congress that does the work of the people and not the special interest groups.

    If the SCOTUS had either cleaned up the law, or passed on it, we would not be inclined to act or prevent this from happening again.

    The economy is going to get worse, as more health care kicks in and businesses are still frozen because of uncertain futures.

    Now Obama cannot run against the Republicans or the SCOTUS in saying they took away your healthcare.

    Time to move forward and not fall back.
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    We don't want you to smoke, drink pop, eat eggs or sugars, carry a gun, ride a motorcycle, ski, fly private planes, and we are now going to tax you because WE determine it is bad for you and we feel it cost society too much money.

    That's what is scary about this ruling.

    Remember, this Health care bill was not passed on a partisan basis, but now the liberals want conservatives to be partisan.
     
  9. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    + 1 to Setterman,,,,,,this has set a precedent for congress on what to do when they want to do something "for the good of the people",,,,,,,it is up to the people to vote for those who are against or at least less than the others,,,,,you watch these little dumbo rats stay away from the convention and not have hussein come into them,,,,,,husseincare is still 60%+ against by the American people,,,,,remember 2010,,,,,,2012 needs to be a bigger shout to DC that we are fed up.......
     
  10. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Sissy & Setterman are right on. Great posts. Sad day for those of us who remember what America used to be, though.

    -Gary
     
  11. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Trappy, I'd like to respond to your post, but you didn't say anything coherent - again.
     
  12. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    Making everybody participate is a socialist principle Trappy. I really hope you try harder than this in school. Twit.

    http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/our-object-and-declaration-principles


    Object:


    The establishment of a system of society based upon the common ownership and democratic control of the means and instruments for producing and distributing wealth by and in the interest of the whole community.

    I would understand universal healthcare to fall under a facet of this.

    Nick
     
  13. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    The real message here is for the "Independent" voters.


    You heard Justice Roberts. You're lewd, screwed, and tattooed. You voted for this son of a bitch, he stuck it to you...and now, the Supreme Court is not going to save you.




    So, "Independents"...what are you gonna do about it?
     
  14. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Sissy is right, we are screwed as a country. You can sugarcoat it or babble BS like trappie, but the truth is that this country no longer exists as a haven for free enterprise- it is now a socialist nation doomed to extinction just like all the other socialist nations in history. Goodbye capitalism, hello bankruptcy.
     
  15. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    What I see happening now, is a "Civil War" between Red and Blue states over Health Care. The court just said that if states decide to opt out of the Medicare expansion, the Federal Gubmint's very limited in what they can do about it.



    So now the other shoe is going to drop. Republican states will opt out, after the election...and Obama will spend his second term filing lawsuits against states, just like he did with Arizona on immigration.




    Will Obama go to war with his own country over policy differences? Let's see if he's dumb enough to take the bait the Court just laid in front of him - I bet you ten bucks that's exactly what he's going to do.


    The full-employment bill for Lawyers just went into effect.
     
  16. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Let me start out by saying that I am by no means socialist and believe capitalism should be the driving force in our economy. That said, look at Norway. They are socialist, and amongst the happiest people on earth with among the highest per-capita income and GDP, and level distribution of wealth. They are also leaders in healthcare and education. Must really suck to be socialist. I understand the fear of socialism to be specific to those who lived through the Cold War, but to assume that socialism goes hand in hand with oppression is very ignorant in the modern day world. But again, don't agree with it, just stating some facts.

    635, considering the Air Force. Always wanted to fly planes, so I figure why not go for it.

    wireguy, I'll be sure to dumb-down the language on my next post for you.

    Remstar, you are ignoring a KEY principle of socialism. That is, government ownership. The definition you provided used the words "and" not "or" between common ownership and democratic control. Therefore, there must be BOTH for it to be socialism. Socialism is based upon government ownership. Your definition proves it as it is the prerequisite for something to be considered socialist. Socialism is a form of an ECONOMY. It has nothing to do with politics. Why do all of you fail to understand that?

    -Trappy
     
  17. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    In the big picture I have to agree with Mr. Galt. Nothing can save this country now. It is only a short while before the dollar ceases to be the world reserve currency, and then we all find out how the world's other people live.
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Trying to put a good spin on this is like trying to make chicken salad out of chicken manure.

    This affirms the government via our politicians have unlimited power to tax us and force us into any government they deem we need to be subject to.

    It's not really a surprise. After all, we've been forced to pay "voluntary" income taxes, Social Security and Medicare, plus property taxes, hundreds of excise taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes, inventory taxes, payroll taxes, ad infinitum ad nauseum.

    Did anyone REALLY think that government at this late date would be reined in?

    The best that can be hoped for is a backlash against Obama. But that brings up the nagging issue of whether Romney will really do anything about ObamaCare. He CLAIMS he is going to overturn it. Which is quite interesting coming from the man who designed RomneyCare, which is like a prototype for ObamaCare.

    The ONLY good point of this debacle is that Roberts made it perfectly clear that this is a TAX, not a mandatory insurance premium. Obama and his henchmen claimed this was NOT a tax.
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Trappy, you're confusing socialism for communism. Communism has state ownership of private industry. Socialism has tight government control of private industry.

    What happened to General Motors should stand as a bold warning. (The warning really goes back to the government takeover of railroad passenger service, but few understood what it meant, especially at the time.)

    Socialism has been putting more and more controls on industry. Lots of regulatory agencies with lots of regulations. Some regulations are legitimate, of course. Many are highly political and serve no real useful purpose but to help government expand and gain more power, and transfer wealth to those not creating it - another socialist agenda.
     
  20. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Trappy has fasicism in mind. Companies are privately owned but do what the government says. In Germany you had many different arament compaines, but they built what Adolph demanded.

    That is trappy's vision of utophia - private companies doing/building what the chosen one Obama deems feasible. That way if anything goes wrong he (ojackass) can blame the private sector for failing to deliver.

    Seig Barack!!!

    But let's don't be too hard on trappy. After all he never grew up in a free country, like the rest of us. He has never been untethered. He has grown accustomed to having worned the collar. And the very thought of being unleashed, and being free is repulsive. Trappy was tamed before he was even conceived.
     
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