1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

AAs - grey vs. red - loading question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by selmerfan, Jun 10, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    I've been reloading shotshells for 15 years, almost 100% red AA hulls, mostly field loads, some trap. I picked up some grey handicap AA hulls last summer that are giving me fits. They are the old style of hull, but the crimp is not closing completely. I'm loading them on a P/W 600B loader that works very well with the red hulls, perfect crimp, star center, but the grey hulls are leaving an opening in the center large enough to allow even #5 shot to dribble out. Annoying as heck, my only remedy so far has been melting wax into each one to hold the shot in. Not a major problem to do, but it is a PITA. It seems to me that the grey hulls are just a bit shorter than the red hulls. Am I right about this, or do I need to change the crimp settings on my machine? Thanks for the input!
    Willie
     
  2. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Thanks! I tried lowering the finish crimp, but that didn't seem to help at all. I'm relatively new to the P/W 600B, I inherited it in pristine condition from an uncle.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Don't lower the finish crimp, lower the crimp starter. I have never found a difference between the red and gray hulls.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Two equal recommendations, I'll go give it a try after work.
     
  5. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,266
    It seems to me that the grey AAs have a bit more internal volume than the reds, but quite not as much as STS hulls. The solution for closing the hole is lowering the crimp starter as Mr. Ireland suggested. If you want to load both reds and greys without adjustment you will need to compromise on the settings. You will find that the correct adjustment for the greys will cause the reds to have a swirl in the crimp and sometimes they bell out enough to cause chambering problems. Best solution is to load one type of hull at a time.
     
  6. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,594
    He says the gray hulls are the old style with the built in interior base while he's apparently set up for the two piece AA HS reds. I'll opine that there just MAY be a slight difference in the internal volume. I'll suggest there has to be an adjustment in the crimping operation to close that center hole but I'm not into the PW loaders....Bob Dodd
     
  7. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    I actually have never checked to see if the grey hulls are old style, I was told they were, so I made an assumption. That would certainly have an effect on the crimping. Can't believe I didn't think of that....the red hulls are definitely old style, they are out of my old stash.
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    Gray hulls are new style. Lowering the crimp starter should correct your problem!!
     
  9. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,971
    I had a lot of trouble with the old style Silver Bullets before the new plastic AA hulls with the separate base wad. Those old 1 piece ones were soft plastic and a smashed crimp would be a real mess to get out of the PW 900 loader. I don't have any problems with the new 2 piece AA hulls red or gray.
     
  10. TC

    TC TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    931
    Old AA's: Dull red and silver gray

    New AA's: Bright Shiny red and charcoal gray

    If you look down inside you can see the seperate base wad on the new style also.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Red v. Gray- case volume

    As carefully as I could, I cut the end of three red AA once fired hulls and three gray hulls at the base of the crimp. I filled one red hull to the top with water ( I added a little liquid detergent to eliminate surface tension). I then poured the water into the other two red hulls and they filled to the top suggesting equal case volume. I then poured the water into the three gray hulls and they filled to the same level as the red hulls.

    A better comparison would be to weigh the hulls empty and then filled with water. One possible error involves cutting the tapered crimp uniformly on each test case.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,266
    I generally load hulls with the tapered crimp end intact. Probably where I got so mixed up.
     
  13. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,543
    So let's see. The older Red AA's are reloading fine but this batch of HNDCP Greys are giving you trouble AKA "crimp not closing completely". Me thinks you have newer two pc hulls and the wad is hanging up on the internal base cup lip. Common problem. Not the loader, or the wad, or pressure or any crimp. Dave T.
     
  14. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Thanks for all of the input guys. The grey hulls ARE the new style with the two piece base. I did lower the crimp starter as far as I possibly could and it helped some. They still do not close as well as the red hulls. I have some new style red hulls at home (I'm on internship right now) and when I get back again, I'll bring some up and try loading them to see if I have the same problem as with the new gray hulls. I did measure the grays vs. old reds and the grays were on average .010" to .015" shorter than the older red hulls. I straightened them as best I could to get consistent measurements. I hadn't thought of Dave's idea of the wad hanging up on the two-piece base, and that may certainly be the case. (no pun intended) I'll let you know what results with the new-style red hulls.
    Willie
     
  15. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,543
    Willie: Try this. Alternate your hulls between old style Red's and New two pc Grays and watch how far down the shot and wad are sitting between the two. If the grays are catching, the shot will be alot higher up. To verify, what I do is pour the shot out in something I can pour back in the hull easily, put my finger in the hull pick up the wad and then spin it down. I usually hear a "click' as the wad moves past the base cup ridge. Then I pour the shot back in and continue. Sounds like alot but only about 10 seconds. I reload for quality not quantity and also to cheap to throw out my 20,000 once fired two pc hulls. Dave T.
     
  16. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Dave, thanks for the tip. The problem is that I'm loading them on a Ponsness/Warren 600B progressive loader. I'll have to verify that that is what's going on here, but I'm guessing that with your experience I would have the same problem. I don't too many of these two-piece hulls, and I will be investing in either old AAs, my preference, or try out these Remington STS hulls. Thanks!
    Willie
     
  17. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,167
    Go to sts hulls--the NEW AA's, red or gray are a pita---older red and gray aa's load equally well--WINCHESTER RUINED RELOADING THEM WHEN THEY SWITCHED TO TH TWO PC. BASE WAD--sure you can start making adjustments to your loader and drive urself crazy if u want--do urself a favor,leave ur machine alone and load only old aa's or sts--u don't have to make adjustments between the two--NEW AA'S SUCK.
     
  18. jbrucejr

    jbrucejr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2008
    Messages:
    113
    It would be helpful to know what you are putting in.

    What wad? What and how much powder? Amount of shot?

    Some wads to hang on the base wad in the new AA's.

    JB
     
  19. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,358
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    I never pondered the question, but my 2002 Accurate Arms Loading manual lists the red and Grey AA's as different hulls. (??)

    I don't think much of the new AA hulls either.
     
  20. selmerfan

    selmerfan TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    EE, thanks for the helpful response - I've been loading shotgun, rifle, some BR rifle, and handgun for 20 years. I know the difference, but the data for both is the same. I'm loading 16.5 gr. of Clays under a WWAA12SL wad with 7/8 oz. of shot out front. I appreciate all of the helpful suggestions, I try to learn from all experiences.
    Willie
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.