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AA Hull Problems

8K views 67 replies 23 participants last post by  DTrykow 
#1 ·
Last weekend I heard that there has been some problems with base inserts in
new style AA hulls coming out after reloading [resizing] and sticking in the
barrel making for a dangerous situation. Is this true or some "urban" legend?
I am a little concerned as I reload AAs but so far am still working my way thru a stash of old hulls that I still have.

Thanks for whatever light anyone out there can shed on this.

kene
 
#2 ·
I had moved a few base wads in the 1st generation 2 piece hulls (boxes around the AA). Most of them were moved up by the primer during reloading on my P-W press because the P-W doesn't apply pressure to the base wad from the inside like the MEC presses do. I DID have 1 that I found up inside the hull near the crimps after I fired it. Never had one come out completely.

That being said, Winchester has changed the way the base wad is held in the hull by adding a pair of ribs that run around the inside of the hull at the base wad and clamp it in place. I have loaded thousands of the 2nd (no box) and 3rd (no box, head stamp "HS") generation hulls and have not found one moved base wad.

MK
 
#4 ·
<blockquote><I>"Urban legend. I have reloaded 100,000's of AA hulls for over 35 years. Almost no issues, none, nada.........</I></blockquote>"Almost" is a BIG word.

Besides, the hulls you reloaded for the first 25 or so years don't count here. They didn't have separate base wads.

MK
 
#11 ·
Rick,

You can still go back older then what you are saying. I have some very first gen ones that are black AA's that read western AA trap handicap in red letters. These are not western hulls the are true AA just the very first ones they ran. From what I have been told they are from the first 4 months of production. I miss the old AA's I am having to cut 500 first gen AA's 20ga hulls open for a realoading mistake and that just kills me because the new ones IMOP are junk when you compare the quilty and build differances. I will keep looking for old ones to buy/aquire as long as I can.
 
#14 ·
I have loaded many thousands of the new two piece hulls of all generations. Not one loose basewad and I inspect EVERY hull I load. I have literally tried to remove the basewads and I could not do so without actually cutting or damaging the hull to do so. Just because I have not seen it, does not mean it can't happen. I have yet to have someone produce a live version of the migrated basewad in the new AA hulls. Someone did have a picture on this forum some time ago, but it's hard to tell anything from that.
 
#15 ·
Jerry and Quack Shot, it amazes me how some people can ignore what is obviously a problem with deadly potential. There is plainly a problem with the first generation of the AA 2 piece hulls since so many shooters have seen a base-wad come out (including the 3 that I've seen), yet you give it no credence because you personally haven't seen it. How many firings with a bbl. obstruction do you figure your shotgun can stand before it blows up in your face and/or sends shrapnel towards your fellow shooters? There are too many good, cheap hulls available to risk it.

Buz
 
#16 ·
Buz, I ignore nothing. I always look through the barrel before I put a shell into the chamber. Still looking for my fist loose basewad. I don't understand how it can happen to some repeatedly and yet others never see it. I load the things till they begin to split.


If a basewad were to stick in the barrel I think it would sound odd because it would block the noise of powder ignition.

I did have what looked like a white plastic washer come out of an old Remington once and stick in the barrel. I don't remember what they were called but they weren't one piece. I don't hear anyone screaming about those.
 
#17 ·
alfermann66

I've seen almost every kind of hull failure you could imagine over the years. I have not seen a New Style AA base wad loosen up or move. I HAVE seen a TON of Eurotrash Hulls with loose basewads and will not shoot or load them. Save your breath for the people that push those hulls for reloading, since I can produce many examples of the issue and many others have seen them. I will continue to load and shoot the New Style AA hulls after careful inspection. If there were that many of them, there would be a lot of pictures, examples, and lawsuits. I also stated that since I have never seen it, that does not mean it cannot happen. I could walk accross the street and get run over by a runaway elephant. I've never seen it around here, but anything is possible. Does that mean I shouldn't cross the street? I always look both ways. I also always double check the hulls I load.
 
#18 ·
It must be old time brand loyalty, which I guess might normally be a good thing. New AA's are clearly not the hull they were in the 80's. Let's assume the basewad thing is fixed with the new generation, and a double crimp is my understanding. The new AA's clearly don't load nearly as well as the old, splitting after sometimes only 3 reloads.

Move to STS or Nitro (maybe even gun clubs, but I don't care for steel bases). They cost no more than AA's, clearly reload slicker. I am struggling why anyone would stick with AA's, other than blind loyalty to the hull.

When I got into trap shooting, I bought 10 cases of AA's, knowing those were the shell of choice in the good old days. After reloading them a couple of times, I knew something was clearly different, but had not found this forum yet. Still, I reloaded them 2 times and let them fly.
 
#19 ·
When the AA hull was changed to a two piece plastic unit, two shooters did send me a total of three hulls with lose base wads. All of the hulls were clearly reloaded many more times than I would load a hull.

I, ans several others posters (HM) on this site made attempts to pry the base wad out with no success. I used a band say, drill press, punches, vice grips and a solid vice and I could never get one out. I only reload my hulls 3-4 times. Handicap loads are only in new cases. Then one or two singles reloads and then they go to the first shot of doubles and on the ground. With 9,000 pounds of force pushing the base wad back against the brass, I cannot see how even a lose base wad could get into the barrel.

I am satisfied with AA hulls.

Pat Ireland
 
#20 ·
Didreckson, I find that AA's "clearly reload slicker" on my PW2000. Rem hulls get stuck in the shell feeder and the primers don't always seat flush. That doesn't happen with AA's. Besides AA's are red, the way shotgun shells are supposed to be, and just prettier than nasty green Rem.

Pat, I doesn't seem possible that a basewad could come out with all that pressure in front but I think that can happen. After actually seeing a piece of a Rem hull stuck in my own barrel I know it is possible. The only explanation I can give is compression and rebound. Pressure makes things happen.
 
#21 ·
I have a dark gray AA hull on my desk now that has the base wad migrated all the way up to the start of the crip after I fired it. I have no idea how many times I have reloaded this hull but the crip is still in great shape. This hull does now have a 1" lengthwise split in the side of the hull near where the base wad normally sits (a common failure mode)

These new AA base wads can come move so, it is a good idea to check your barrel between shots and look the hulls over closely before reloading.

Scott
 
#22 ·
Or you could simply use a 1 piece hull as the AA's were for decades and not concern yourself with something even 1 in a million coming loose.

I am not sure why Winchester chose to change them, but the new style regardless of vintage do not stack up against the old 1 piece AA's for crimp or longevity.

I have loaded on Mec 9000G, 9000G with an Automate Gen 1, P/W 800+ with hull feeder and hydraulic, and now a Spolar with hydraulic. I can find no difference loading ease with green, gold or red (and a buddy cleaned out a few hundred really old AA 1 piece I am using up after cleaning them up).

Only I don't have to think about the green or gold. If red floats your boat, I see no reason to not use them. I just take the path of least resistance since the Remington product works well.
 
#23 ·
Where would we be without the traditional Red, Green, and Gold colors for Christmas?

When someone gives you 8000 once fired hulls, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. They were all Red and Gray Win AA new style hulls. Some of the early generation, but most newer. Most have already been loaded a number of times and tossed. I have also aquired many more over the past few years and have used many of them. Don't get me wrong, I also use Remingtons and Federals, but will not hesitate to use the new style Win AA hulls, given my personal experience and loading habits. I inspect EVERY hull I load, including a good look inside with a strong light. If anything looks wrong, it gets tossed.

Why would a base wad separate? 10,000 PSI is a lot of pressure to put on a plastic tube. Maybe the tube expands to the point that gas can leak around the backside of the basewad. Who knows, but I have never encountered an example of a Win AA basewwad migration. Whether in person from another shooter, or from my own supply of hulls. I also don't load my hulls until they start to disintegrate. When they start to look and feel rough, they get tossed.

Anyone that has examples of a Win AA basewad migration is free to post the pictures here. I would like to see examples with some background on the failures. The inability of many people to provide ANY evidence or first hand knowledge, but offer cautions against using them is just the spread of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). I have posted examples of the EuroTrash hulls and the migrating basewads I personally observed. Just do a search on my sign on and see the heat I get for doing so. I still see examples of this in once fired hulls, so I doubt the EuroTrash factory has done anything to fix the problem. I have not EVER seen that type of failure in a Win AA hull. Taking a number of the Winchester two piece hulls apart, you can see that they have made a few changes to the base wads. I feel confident that they are servicable and reasonably safe to use, given careful hull inspections before loading.
 
#25 ·
When the *new* AAs came out, and I'm talking the first couple months, I accumulated several hundred once fired at our range. Hadn't reloaded any yet when I read the first reports (here) about loose basewads.

I had nearly a target box full of them by that time and I inspected every one. Yeah, I found a few with the basewad forward at least 1/4". I wish now I'd saved them.

Never saw another one with a loose basewad. I guess it got fixed pronto. Funny how this subject comes up every so often, how long ago was that? And there are still fools who say, since they never saw one themselves, then ipso facto it's a myth.
 
#26 ·
fritzi93

Never said it's a myth, just that it's probably not as common as some might claim it to be. It might have been an issue with very early production, but EVERY New Style AA hull I have looked at or loaded over the past few years had an intact basewad. I still inspect my hulls, even the one piece, for any obvious internal defects. The lack of examples and other proof leave me to believe there are many people just spreading FUD. No evidence, or something that happened with initial production leads me to believe current production hulls would be reasonably safe to load, given proper hull inspection. If you want an eye opener, start checking some of the EuroTrash Hulls and see how many have loose basewads. Then read some of the threads and see how many people will load them, KNOWING that they have an issue. That's foolish. Believe me, If I were to find a loose basewad in a AA hull, I would have the pics posted here in a heartbeat. I've worn out and tossed well over 10,000 New Style AA Hulls over the past few years. Not one had a loose basewad, even after multiple loadings. Please tell me again what it is I'm supposed to be afraid of and exactly why I would be called a fool?

I have even tried to get a basewad to come loose from some new style AA hulls. I literally had to destroy the hull to get one to move or come out. That even included some with the "Box" around the AA. If you have some evidence to the contrary, I'd be more than happy to see it.
 
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