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A theory...

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by rpeerless, Mar 22, 2013.

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  1. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago urban spread was taught where the people in the cities would gradually make good and move to suburbia only to be replaced by new city dwellers.

    Based on that theory, poverty in the USA should have been alievated years ago with all the effort and money that has been thrown at it for decades.

    One theory is that these new urban dwellers immigrate from other countries replacing those who moved up, thus forming whole new subcultures as established immigrants pave the way for more friends and family as they come from abroad forming little culture clusters. Just like earlier times.

    These newcomers to our society bring with them the culture and traditions of their countries. This works if the immigrants are from civilized societies that share our values. But what if their culture is one where violence is everyday and based on different social taboos? What if their cultures are undeveloped and uncivilized compared to ours? Acceptable behavior in their cultures is not acceptable behavior in our culture.

    This is why I think our cities are turning violent. Couple this 'imported problem' with our educated and civilized belief in the Second Amendment and the immigrants refusal to assimilate. Would new immigrants believe they could reign supreme in urban areas by abusing our trusting system? How many of us have witnessed gun transactions by foreigners whose 'papers were in order' although they were not American citizens and asked why they are allowed to purchase?

    Why isn't there an extended waiting period for non citizens of the US? Or why aren't gun purchases reserved for US citizens?

    Okay, if the right is God given then it is conveyed upon arrival to US soil?

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    You can look at the stats - 85% of the LEGAL Immigrants to this country (which is over a million a year) come from 3rd world countries. I would like to see any other country in the world deal with this influx and not have problems.

    We are committing sucide.
     
  3. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago I can remember children of recent immigrants in my classes. Their dads were educated professionals and usually in the employ of major local companies. They weren't hanging around on street corners and park benches in cities. And they could speak English, maybe broken English but English nevertheless.
     
  4. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    The entire purpose of the political and cultural left in bringing millions of non-western immigrants here is to dilute and destroy western civilization. They have succeeded grandly.
     
  5. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    And is this the problem our government representatives are hiding from us the American people? Instead of focusing on the problem and the solution their solution is to deny everyone their rights? Is this what they think is the cheaper way out? The cheap solution to a growing problem when they have the ability to stop it or legislate against it instead of legislating against the American people?

    Just wondering...
     
  6. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    And the sad part about it is that after throwing billions at the problem, there are people living out of dumpsters in tropical areas because that's how they made their living in their own countries before coming here. Was told to watchout where I rented in CA when I emptied my garbage into the dumpster because they might be in there. Sure enough a woman in a straw hat and her child were in there picking through the trash.

    And sadder yet, the trash pickings here exceeded the trash pickens in her own country. I'm willing to bet on it.
     
  7. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    Perhaps the problem is with cities themselves. Years ago as an undergraduate I took a psychology class to fulfill a general education requirement. I remember reading about one experiment with rats where more and more were placed in an increasingly crowded environment. When a certain density was reached all sorts of bizarre behaviors began - mothers eating their pups, constant fighting and aggression, other rats behaving almost like they were in a catatonic state. This country was much better when the population was 150 million rather than 330 million.
     
  8. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    The problem created in the lab is unrealistic because of urban sprawl. The lab is pushing maximum density in that controlled experiment, the US is not. That is unless the numbers of city dwellers are being deliberately increased on a massive scale and timetable, replicating the lab experiment. Cities like ant farms and bee hives can handle max population but then a designated leader will lead some of the masses of hard workers to a new nest or hive insuring the health of the whole. City folk do that on their own, in time, if they are into ladder climbing. Why do people relocate and why don't they relocate?
     
  9. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    The suggested and most logical solution to urban sprawl was of course to build upward...to infinity and beyond:)

    Seriously, our legislators are legislating obviously to city dwellers and are sadly neglecting the overwhelming population of rural and suburban dwellers.

    Bad laws are no laws at all. By this I mean that by curbing the rights of all for the doings of a few, the organized lawless factions are the ones who will benefit by making more people helpless victims.
     
  10. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    In many cases it's not who is coming in, its how the system is processing those who are already here.

    Look to the education system and social engineering. A failure by many measurements.

    It was reported earlier this month that 80% of New York City high school graduates required remedial classes in order to attend college. Many could only do math and reading at the grammar school level. Not college ready, NOT JOB ready, but welfare ready!

    Many city high schools are reporting less then 50% graduation rates.

    Not uncommon statics throughout city school systems in the USA.

    What is happening when a child that is looking forward to attending school as a Kindergartner or 1st grader, that by the time they reach 5th or 6th grade they are so far behind they will never catch up and a potential dropout and a life long user of the welfare system?

    The schools can't keep blaming it on single parent families or a lack of money in education. Just does not meet the smell test!
     
  11. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    I thank my lucky stars I do not live in a large city. When the SHTF, you want to be anywhere but in a large city.

    Your theory has great merit.
     
  12. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    You can test your theory by looking at the citizenship or nationality of those arrested for violent crimes. Are they predominantly native or foreign born? You may also want to look at crime rates among foreign born and natives (available at the DOJ website). The same thing is broken down by races. No point speculating. By the way, I am an immigrant, naturalized in 1972. Chichay
     
  13. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Chichay,

    Tried to do just what you suggested and encountered a few problems.

    One: is that reports are classified.

    Two: Are African Americans (new) and Black Americans both counted as Black on the crime rates? A city near me has Africans who speak African language in public.

    Three: Native statistics were for Native Americans.

    If you have something that illustrates your point please post it.

    Thanks for your contribution to the USA. I hope you love it here as much as our families did when they immigrated and/or greeted immigrants in the past and as much as most of us do now.
     
  14. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    rpeerless,

    I can assure you the reports are NOT classified as I had access to them less than a month ago. Google "Crime by race" and you'll get a slew of responses. Pick only DOJ or FBI statistics to avoid illegitimate data. The above website is just an example. I don't know what you mean by "Native statistics were for Native Americans"... are you talking about American Indians? If so, they're part of the data under Native Americans (not Caucasians). The information is there for you to sort through.

    Chichay
     
  15. ckVA

    ckVA Member

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    "When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe"

    Thomas Jefferson
     
  16. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    The web page is clearly not foreign and domestic designated crime stats. I did search the DOJ and the information I requested for Native and Foreign born crime statistics came up as "classified". The general search you googled would take a month of Sundays to compile anything from as I checked that out as well. You can see from the web page you presented that the stats were black and white only which is what I was trying to avoid for it is not a true analysis for the above mentioned reason number two. In advance, let's not turn this into a racist thread to avoid the analysis by discussion. Enough said.
    Meanwhile the DOJ does have a data base of crimes by individual race, each having it's own report.
    I will continue to search for a compiled comparison report of statistics if there is one available.

    If I might ask, Chichay, what is your ancestory and why did you choose to come to the USA?
     
  17. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    rpeerless,

    I was born in the Philippines and came here with my parents and siblings after living in Switzerland. We came to this country when my father was offered a position that went unfilled for several years. He was a cardiologist/electro-physiologist trained by Carl Wiggers at the Case-Western Reserve in Cleveland. You can say the family came in his coattails.

    Like yourself, I'm not interested in looking at crimes and races, I'd rather look at the individual. That is how I was raised. And having been blessed by the opportunities granted through very remarkable parents, including having travelled around the world and lived in different continents, I have learned it is not what is on the surface that matters but what is underneath.

    People are a product of their environment, children especially. You might be interested into looking at some Criminology papers that came out of the University of Wisconsin at Madison. It seems that the greatest predictor of running afoul of the law is when a person is raised without a father figure. No races mentioned, only circumstances.

    My education is in Engineering, Business Administration, and Medicine. Hope this gives you an idea where I'm coming from.

    Chichay
     
  18. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    And hopefully you enjoy trapshooting as well :). Thanks for your reply.
     
  19. TF

    TF Active Member

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    I have been a public school teacher in rural Florida for the past 26 years and I have seen an unbelievable transformation. I arrived here with some previous experience, so I think I had my eyes wide open to what composed our students from the start. The Hispanic immigrants were the most respectful, pleasant, easy to work with, and grateful children I had ever come across. The parents were honest and extremely hard working and most importantly involved in their children's lives and education. I knew many who held agricultural jobs during the day and worked service jobs on the side to provide the extras for their kids. I truly admired and respected them for the way the conducted themselves and raised their children. Today it seems few of the generation these folks raised paid attention to what their parents did. Now I have many of their children and it is a different story. Many of their parents aren't working and their kids aren't taking advantage of what the education system can do for them. They view themselves as victims not as people with an opportunity. They are more interested in the gang culture than in eduction or bettering themselves. These children have become disrespectful to an amazing degree in just one generation. Some of their parents have gone the same way and they appeared to be wonderful people as teenagers. What happened? Many have discovered government aid. You don't have to work for anything and everyone who does owes you something. There is a lawyer in our area whose sole business is to fill out the forms and get the people on the dole. He has made a career out of only this. It is well known who he is and what he will do for you and people flock to him. Not all the Hispanic families have gone this way but far too many have. I still have many of the shining faces every day and they are a joy to behold. I personally know each of their parents too, where they work, and I know they want their kids to succeed. By the way most of the immigrants doing the hard work are the recent ones. After being here for a little while, it seems they discover what the government will give them and stop working. There is almost always a labor shortage and a constant supply of new workers seems to be needed.

    Tom Frazer
     
  20. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Tom, you're right, it's a well known fact that it's the first generation of immigrants that work. Their kids that are raised here join gangs or get on the welfare bandwagon.

    Something in our culture devalues hard work. It says if you work hard or get dirty you are a victim, chump, sucker................ Better to be a gang-banger than to be exploited by the man (their thinking) by working.

    I messed up my knee and have been immobile for the last couple of weeks, so I have been watching a lot of TV. I figure if you watch much of that stuff everybody will feel like they are a victim. Nobody works. The young girls all spend their days dancing and singing and working on their record deal. The Housewives spend their days going to lunch, cocktail parties, day spas. The Kardisians do what they do, then the rest of the people on TV are cops that harass minorities. Then it seems like 85% of the daytime commercials are from lawyers saying they can get you on disability.

    Everybody is a victim.
     
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