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A target is a target & a trap is a trap, or is it?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Dec 22, 2011.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hello:
    When I first started shooting trap my instructor would always say that a "target is a target, and a trap is a trap". What he meant was no mater where you shoot, the targets are the same, and a trap house is the same.

    Over the years after shooting in and out of state, shooting at numerous gun clubs, his statement in theory may sound like good advice, but not always true?

    The other night, I was at a local club and one of the shooters after I told him the above saying, said that targets and trap houses are all different, just like women.

    He said depending where you shoot, some brand targets are harder to break, and at most clubs the trap houses are sitting high, or very low into the ground. The way each club sets it's targets from trap to trap is also troublesome.

    How many times at state shoots or at major tournaments do we see targets set very differently from house to house, usually on the same bank of traps? I have always felt that the difference between a solid A and AA shooter is the AA shooters ability to adjust for different trap houses from trap to trap as well as different trap settings before targets are missed.

    How many times when a squad shot very well on their first trap, then on the very next trap almost the entire squad starts off hearing "lost target" from almost the entire squad on their first target out?

    How do you handle variations for trap house height from trap to trap? Do you agree that a target is a target, and a trap is a trap, or do you believe that they are all very different and the good shooter has the ability to adjust his shooting before missing tgargets?
    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    I help set trap targets at our club. Some shooters want to see perfect targets, and take that variable out of the equation. Others are willing to shoot at any legal targets. I also shoot different disciplines including 5 stand and sporting clays, so my credo is "See the bird, shoot the bird". Mark
     
  3. BigBearRod

    BigBearRod Member

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    I think they are all different, and that is ONE of the things that makes this sport fun, challenging, interesting, oh yeah and FUN !

    Rod
     
  4. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Mark:
    A good friend of mine who is a very good shooter attempted to teach me how to shoot doubles years ago. His advice was to break the first target as fast as you can, then look for the second target and break that one too???
    Steve
     
  5. Texas Yankee

    Texas Yankee Member

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    dI have shot Southwest Grand and Texas State shoot at the NSC for the last six years. The houses are all about the same and birds set very well to the rules. I have found that the background is differnt on all fields nomatter if you shoot the first or second level. When you move to the soft focus before calling for the bird you have a differnt view with each trap and with each post on the field. Each bird can look differnt and if you cannot adjust you will hear lost. IMO it is not the traphouse or the target it is the background and that can change even from year to year with the growth of the trees of grass.
     
  6. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Texas Yankee:
    Would the different height of the trap houses change your position on where you hold on each trap house? Let's say on a trap with a higher house, and another built lower into the ground?
    Steve
     
  7. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    If shooting ATA targets, I like to see them set to the rules. Ideally all the houses throw the same target, but my experience shows that each house throws a slightly different target. What annoys me is when a club refuses to use a height bar in the morning and just tries to eyeball the height. That seems to be when you see the most variation in presentations between houses.

    You can't help wind or weather, so you need to shoot the bird where it is flying, NOT where it is SUPPOSED to fly.

    Backgrounds are just a mental aspect of the game. I learned to shoot at Miramar, where there were planes landing in the background all day...yes, even during ATA shoots. So you had to learn to block out the background and only see the target. That makes trees/grass/sky/water a piece of cake compared to moving noisy jets!
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    You shoot that little orange thing that comes out and don't worry about the house, the background, the puller, the guy next to you, the weather, etc. See the target, shoot the target, it's taught in all clinics and done by the good shooters.
     
  9. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    I would be the first to admit that I am not a good shooter. With that being said, when I watch the best shooters in my state break targets, most make it look easy, and some look like machines on the line.

    I would like to hear from some good shooters on what they are thinking when they have a good run going and suddenly they miss one? In the higher classes, you most likely are out of the running, so how do you continue shooting breaking targets knowing that you are now out of it? How do you stay focused, instead of just going through the motions until the event is over? what is your mind set when this happens?
    Steve
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Yes and NO! You can't make it an excuse but you need to recognize differences and be able to adjust to them.
    Joe
     
  11. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    The game is suppose to be a game of constants. That's why there are target setting rules and not just suggestions. Now, since it's an outdoor sport that can't happen but the target setting management are suppose to give you as close to the optimum target as possible.

    There are some clubs with setters that really know what they're doing and some who don't.

    Do you know why folks liked Remington targets, so much, before they started to produce crappy quality targets?
     
  12. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    All this being said:

    The two biggest variables in my mind are: What you see behind the trap house in the target flight line for contrast, the second is intermittent clouds to sunshine to clouds to sunshine to clouds.

    When I shot in california, it was rare for clouds to be an issue, it happened but rarely.

    Here in Florida it is a constant thing with varying light due to clouds.

    I am not B**ching just stating this causes me problems seeing the target correctly.
     
  13. Ken Brandt

    Ken Brandt Active Member

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    Barry;

    Because you could roll them into a little black cloud when you centered it.

    Hard to do with any target now-days.

    Ken
     
  14. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    You'ref right there but not the answer I was looking for. I should have been more specific. Why did target setters, specifically, and, shooters like the old Remington targets best?
     
  15. 3357

    3357 Member

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    If the targets are thrown within legal perameters and are consistant from trap/bank to trap/bank so everyone is shooting the same basic target on a given day, I have no complaints. The weather and wind is the big variable and I take that as it comes, good, or bad.

    I always figure if someone complains about the weathers effect on targets they should probably sit out the event or not shoot that day.

    The prima-donnas that whine because the targets are "a little high/low/slow/fast etc are the shooters that bother me. I have little time for the (rare) shooter who wants targets adjusted to suit his style or favor his guns poi. Fortunately when this occurs the other squad members usually feel as I do and common sense prevails.

    Just See The Target / Shoot The Target unless they are really illegal.
     
  16. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    The setters like them because they were easy to get a hold of and the shooters like them because they turned into ink dots.
     
  17. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    They were better balanced & flew truer under most conditions, so most shooters got better scores. It was a sad day when they went out of the target business. Ross Puls
     
  18. Texas Yankee

    Texas Yankee Member

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    Senior Smoke I am a one eye shooter and took Nora Ross's clinic so I hold with the front edge of the house just above the front bead of my gun.
     
  19. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Texas Yankee:
    I am a 2 eyed shooter. I tried one time shooting 1 eye to see if there was a differnce and I could not hit anything. A friend of mine is a 1 eyed shooter and he can't hit targets with both eyes open.
    Steve
     
  20. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Remington targets where heavier than other targets. It took more spring to throw them the distance, thus more spin, thus more stability and "break-a-bility". They were easier to set.
     
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