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"A Reluctant Vote in Favor of Armed School Guards"

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by MTA Tom, Dec 29, 2012.

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  1. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "A Reluctant Vote in Favor of Armed School Guards" by Robert Bernat is an interesting op-ed artuicle in today's WSJ.

    "One-third of the nation's elementary, middle and high schools reportedly already have armed security on campus. In 2000, President Clinton marked the one-year anniversary of Columbine by proposing a significant expansion of the government's existing "COPS in Schools" program. Now that the National Rifle Association's Mr. LaPierre has made a similar proposal, he is being ridiculed. Why?"
     
  2. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Because Bill is a nice guy that feels everyone pain, and Wayne represents all the mean, dangerous, white conservatives that own guns.
     
  3. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    On the day of the shooting Juan Williams, Fox News contributor opined that "it's time we consider putting armed guards in the nations schools". Now after Wayne LaPierre of the NRA has proposed the same thing I notice that Juan has backpedaled.
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Sheriff Joe in Arizona is talking about and considering putting Posse members in schools as armed guards ... Talk about a mistake, most of them are way over the hill and Cop I wannabes, most don't even own guns ... I do not know of one Posse member that carries a gun because of the legal ramifications (been told they are on their own) and the MCSO will not take any of the recourse if they do carry and have to use it and its an open or concealed carry state any way ... The Posse for the most part does door checks and traffic control in case of an accident, they cannot even legally write a parking ticket or a ticket for any moving violations or even legally pull you over for any infraction of the law, they can report you to the real Police but usually don't or won't because they don't want to cause trouble for anyone ... Keystone Cops would be a better name for them but it was already taken many years ago ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The school districts could well afford it if they cared to get rid of a couple of the bloated upper management kingdom they have created.

    Our Tech school has a "Diversity Liaison" guy (black, of course) that does nothing but put up Kwanzaa posters and have monthly meetings with a few students.

    90 Thou a year.

    Nuff said

    HM
     
  6. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Columbine had an armed guard. Did that prevent a shooting from occurring inside a school? Waste of money if it does not prevent ANY, shooting inside the school, IMO. Did not stop those kids from going home, getting some guns and ammunition together, and walking into school, and creating the deadliest at the time, mass shooting in American school history.

    How about stopping them from getting into the schools, since we can't prevent them from obtaining these guns.
     
  7. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Would it not be of more benefit both cost wise, and sensibility, to prevent people from getting into the schools with guns?
     
  8. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Rick Barker,

    Never said the Posse was bad, I said and maintain they (most of them) are not the type of person anyone should consider putting in a school as an armed guard ... You know of one of them that might still be qualified based on experience, I know many of them that are not and never will be because the majority of them are "Cop, I wannabes" and could never make the grade or have the balls to use lethal force even if justified ... They do have squads and radios, but we are talking about people with guns and I contend that unless you can run them over with the squad car or hit them in the right place with the radio when you throw it at them those are useless in the majority of circumstances especially a gun fight ... I don't think the Posse is useless, they do provide a service as I said above ... In most life threatening circumstances they are and would be a joke ... If the United States Air Force put 10,000 fighter jets in the air and none of them had ammo, rockets, or bombs what good would they be in a conflict against any enemy ..? Maybe the answer would be for MCSO to enlist people who are qualified as Posse members and separate those that are qualified from those that are not and create another Police force of sorts ... I used to bowl with a guy who is "gung ho" Posse (General, Capt. or whatever) I asked if he carried a gun, he said no and if he had to he would quit ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  9. trapperwads

    trapperwads Well-Known Member

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    WPT...In the interview I saw on FOX, Sheriff Arpaio he said his possee would be outside the schools on campus. He is coming up with practical solutions whether anyone considers them good or bad not just the ban guns proposals from the radical looney liberals. Every Sheriff in this country should be like Arpaio. He has backbone to stand up to the "bad guys" including those in Washington who let Americans die in Bengazi and a border patrol agent at our border and still hide from the truth using tactics like executive privelege. My guess is Arpaio is more trustworthy than Hillary...Eric Holder..Rahm Emanuel and without question Obama...all put together. ed nichols
     
  10. billyboy07208

    billyboy07208 Member

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    No you dont have to hire armed guards,you want real cops.
    Simple,it will be a stint like "walking the beat",every officer must do it as they come up the ranks,2 year tour of duty,and shuffle them between schools to keep up alertness.They can post mini stations nearer schools also.
    This is coming whether you like it or not,but its coming.
    Post 9-11 world,we guard the courthouses and city hall etc. I see police in the big supermarkets.DUh! just waltz right in a school,sure,okay..
    People need to get over it,we are not a unified homogenous society here,and will never be.The sixties are gone.Lots of disaffected people about,all perfectly sane.
    They always say "no one knows why he did it".
    Armed school guards will be a reality.
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Ed Nichols,

    I agree with your assessment of Joe Arpaio (MCSO) and what he stands for and against ... I ask you, if the Posse is outside of the building (on campus) and the shooter is inside what purpose would the Posse member serve other than to notify the Real Police and wait for them to show up once they realize whats happening ..? There has to be a reasonable solution but putting Posse members in the mix or even in the general area is not it from my point of view and based on my knowledge of the Posse members that I personally know, respect and appreciate their service to the community ... I also feel that Sheriff Joe will come up with a practical and reasonable solution working with other law enforcement agency's without including his Posse members or at least the majority of the Posse members ... Protection is paramount, there is no second chance in most cases so it has to be done right the first time ... I do not have the answer, wish I did but common sense can usually predict if it will work or not ... I have seen the Posse directing traffic and get it so messed up even they couldn't get it figure out what was happening or how it got that messed up ... One guy telling you go, the other telling you to stop ...


    The Washington crowd (Obama's administration) is probably most of Americas worst enemy starting with Obama, Hillary, Holder, Emanual and the list goes on working your way down to the bottom ... We all agree that Obama wants to bring America to its knees and during the course of this next term he may very well do so or cause enough damage that it cannot be reversed in most of our life time ... Time will tell and sooner or later the American people will get tired of Obama and his shit, have to see what happens then ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Flynn,

    The last guy shot his way into the school. No fortress is siege proof.
     
  13. trapperwads

    trapperwads Well-Known Member

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    WPT...Its my sense that even a wacko like the Sandy Hook killer is smart enough to know if he is hell bent on killing...he will not enter where he may get killed before carrying out his mission. If one child is kept alive, its worth looking at Sheriff Arpaio's proposal. As for people getting smart on Obama...I think the last election proves they won't or are too dependent on the government dole to give a damn. For some...the handouts may be the highest paid job they ever had. ed
     
  14. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Define fortress? I would hardly describe a locked door, with glass all around it, a fortress. Putting armed guards inside a school, is not going to stop shootings from occurring in a school, that has already been determined by Columbine.

    You have to stop looking at solutions to stop these people from committing these crimes as RATIONAL THINKING PEOPLE! I would think that every one of them goes into this act thinking they are going to kill themselves afterwards. Some have the balls to do it. If you think that the presence of guns is going to be a deterrent, why do these people dress up in supposed armor? If they think know one has guns where they are going, don't you think they would just wear shorts, and a T-shirt and be comfortable before they shoot themselves?
     
  15. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    All in all if everyone carried a gun in 6 months time the bullcrap would be weeded out and piece would set in. Just look at the type of people that shitcago got rid of this year. Over 500 and that was just the bad guys shooting the bad guys. Just think if you had honest citizens shooting bad guys also. How much of the darlics would be gone. Wait a minute now I figured it out. Lets ban guns so only the real bad guys will have them for protection. Washington DC
    would have the largest inventory of weapons. Then shitago, New Ywak. Bill
     
  16. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Ed Nichols,

    The gun man (killer) took his own life so he knew he was going to die anyway, and planned on it ... The shot being from a protector or his own, the outcome should of been the same ... Swat Teams are trained to Kill, (eliminate the threat) typically Police are trained to take them into custody ... The shooter got what he deserved by his own bullet and saved the tax payers a bunch of money ... Case Closed ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

    Happy New Year to one and all ...
     
  17. oz

    oz Active Member

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    It seems like most of these killers had a mental problem that had been noticed by neighbors, teachers, doctors , clergy and even police officers. Why can't these sick people get help? Cheaper to let them be? Can't do anything until they (break the law?) Hospitals won't take them? Illegal aliens get free medical care, why not insane Americans or non-Americns?
     
  18. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    The fact still remains that at both Columbine and Sandy Hook the shooter died in circumstances of his own choosing AFTER he accomplished his mission. The bottom line is we have to create circumstances such that a would be shooter knows he isn't going to have it all his way. That alone will stop nearly all attempts from even being made. We can't create perfection, we can't stop all tragedies, and minimally paid rent a cops aren't the answer. They aren't there because they have a "mission" oriented mindset, they are only there because they aren't good enough to get a real job doing something productive. That is a GENERAL statement, I'm sure there are some good ones out there but if we hire ten thousand new ones we will be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    What is needed is people who are very close to the children who take the same attitude toward armed self defense that they take toward any of life's other responsibilities. It is woven into the fabric of their everyday lives. They practice enough to maintain their capability. They don't consider being armed and capable some separate distinctly different part of life, rather they consider it a normal part of facing the reality of life, part of which is evil is out there, it's real, and their kids could be targeted. They don't have to be SWAT team capable, they only have to be good enough that a shooter will know going in that he will very quickly be fighting for his life and most likely failing to accomplish his mission instead of enjoying success at shooting down multiple helpless targets.

    The great difficulty in making these decisions is we never get to know how successful we were because we never get to know how many potential shooters were persuaded to NOT do their butchery. We only get to see the failures, never the successes, and shallow minds that can't think beyond the obvious use only the failures to dictate what should be.

    I still say the dept of education should be eliminated and all education returned to the private sector. Let parents decide what is best for their children, what kind of education they want their kids to receive, what they want the campus to look like, what kind of emphasis they want education to contain, and what kind of security or lack of it they want for their children. Let the open marketplace do what it does well, create competition for the money spent on education.
     
  19. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    This gentleman has a pretty good take on things.

    "We should be reasonable and moderate.....

    ...and I'm going to take my cue from the abortion rights folks, and their reasonable and moderate positions that always meet with the approval of our friends in the non-Fox media.

    They oppose anything that gets between a woman and the baby-killer. Anything. Don't make her watch videos, don't make her doctor hand her pro-life flyers, don't do any sort of testing, don't ask her any awkward questions like "what's your name" or "how old are you" or "who's the father?" No waiting periods or cooling-off periods. Don't make her travel very far by restricting how many facilities are in any one area. Don't make laws that say no abortion clinic can be within 1,000 feet of a school.

    If we moderated our views and became as reasonable as the pro-abortion rights crowd, then I'd expect that anyone could walk in to a gun shop and obtain a firearm, no questions asked. Any age, give any fake name and address, lie about the reasons you want one. If we couldn't afford to pay for a firearm, there would be private and governmental programs available to subsidize a purchase or buy one for us outright.

    Ammunition would be handed out by school nurses, and gun control speakers would be barred from addressing students (but NRA speakers would be welcomed with open arms.)

    Every law that made it even the least bit harder to obtain a gun, for any person, would automatically be opposed by all of us, with one loud voice. NOTHING would be considered a "reasonable restriction" on our rights, because the Constitution says so, and OUR right isn't even some made-up penumbral thing.

    Yep, we need to follow the example of those reasonable folks at NARAL and NOW, and expect to compromise in the same manner and in the same direction that they compromise. "


    Bob Falfa
     
  20. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Bob I like his thinking
     
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