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A Question of Balance

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by cimmaronkid, Oct 29, 2007.

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  1. cimmaronkid

    cimmaronkid TS Member

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    We make a lot to do about stock fit, but I hardly ever see anything about where a competition gun should balance measured from the front of the trigger, or how this relates specifically to a trap gun. Anyone have any VALID input to discuss? Pat
     
  2. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Pat......this may not fully answer you question, but different guns will generally have slightly different points at which they balance.This point,of course, is somewhere forward of the trigger and rearward of the forearm. I think that is not as important as whether the gun "feels" balanced between your hands when its mounted. Not enough attention is given to balance....you are right! One thing some shooters don't consider[AND THEY SHOULD] is how adding any weight to a stock or elsewhere will actually change the gun balance. Adjustments are then necessary.
     
  3. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    I have shot guns that felt muzzle heavy and other that felt butt heavy and yet their actual balance points was very close to one another. Can anyone explain that? Was it LOP perhaps.
     
  4. cimmaronkid

    cimmaronkid TS Member

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    In doing some reading, I found that the English Best guns balanced about 3 1/2" in front of the face of the first trigger. I was always taught that a gun that was SLIGHTLY muzzle heavy when balanced at the hinge pin was what you should look for in a competition gun. If this is the case, when adding a recoil reducer to the butt, shouldn't you add weight to the forearm as well to maintain balance? And on the subject of weight, what is about the average weight of most competition trap guns today? Pat
     
  5. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    It does not matter a whole lot because we shoot the guns, not balance them. Not being a smart whatever but that is the truth. John
     
  6. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I had one lesson with a AA27 shooter. He told me he holds very firmly with his right hand and very lightly with his left (right handed shooter). That seems to indicate to me that the gun should balance slightly to the rear.

    Is that bad logic?

    Danny
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I suspect the best balance point will vary among different guns. I have mounted guns that feel barrel light to be and others that feel barrel heavy to me. This could be associated with the way I mount the gun. It is rather simple to change the balance point of a gun and frequently when it is changed, the shooter does not notice the change. Many have added a recoil reducer to their stock and not noticed a change in balance. I have seen some carefully measure the exact balance point of their gun not considering the fact that when they shoot the gun they have changed the balance point by putting a shell or two into the gun. Even a light 7/8 oz shell will change the balance point.

    Some will get very concerned about the linear balance of the gun and totally ignore the vertical balance. A roll over stock will tend to change the vertical balance. Adding weight just under the rib may not be the same thing as adding weight under the barrel.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I own one shotgun a Winchester Model 50 that actually feels Butt heavy and Barrel light. My other shotguns have slightly different balance points but none have a really different feel unless compared to swinging the Model 50.
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Moody Blues

    1970

    Great Album!
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Balance is trivial. What Mike was talking about, moment of inertia, isn't.

    Neil
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, Mike. What your were talking about counts. The thing is, "balance" refers to the center of gravity of a gun and that changes anyway when you grip it and so become part of it.

    The axis of retation of a gun is not about it's balance point, it's about it's butt. (Or, more accurately, about six inches behind it.) And so it depends on where its various masses are located. That ends up as (in shorthand) "balance," but the whole idea is - as you also mentioned - is overwhelmed by other factors, the main one being what happens when you square numbers, as you do when you calculate moments of inertia.

    Neil
     
  12. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    I think balance is not so important in a trap gun used for ATA, or for any gun used for a sport that allows you to premount the gun. My trap gun is appreciably stock heavy because of the weight I added. For any sport shot with a low gun (hunting, Sporting, FITASC, etc) a gun that balances between the hands and forward of the hinge pin mounts more smoothly, more consistently and more quickly. MOI for an unmounted gun should favor the quicker end of the spectrum.

    For premounted guns you are using your right hand (if you are a righty) to lift the gun into position. Your left hand merely holds the barrel up. For low mounted guns, you use both hands. The left "points" toward the target, extending the gun while the right raises the gun to battery.
     
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