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A novel idea on how to make shotgun sports cheaper

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by skeet_man, Mar 24, 2011.

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  1. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Came up with a crazy idea last night that might help reign in the cost of shooting for registered trap, skeet, and sporting clays shooters.

    Why doesn't the ATA, NSSA, and NSCA invest in extremely large quantities of reloading components (and factory ammo), then sell those components to their members at cost. With the large buying powder they have, they should be able to purchase at 25-50% less than retail price.

    I realize that with manpower it'd end up being a slight loss, but think of all the additional shooting that would occur because of the savings you'd save on ammo! A possible solution to that would be to raise membership into the $100/year range, to cover costs involved, realizing the privilege you'd get of saving a ton on reloading supplies (basically think of it as a Sams Club membership for reloading). Make it a personal use thing, anyone caught buying supplies @ cost, and selling for profit wouldn't be able to buy again.

    What I read on here the other day was that when shot was $30/bag retail, it was $21/bag wholesale from Lawrence if you bought 40000 lbs (1600 bags), so that leads me to believe there's at least 30% markup just on shot (and only 33k invested to receive that kind of savings), and shot probably has the least markup of any reloading component.

    This could also boost attendance at the large shoots hosted by each organization, make it a once a year deal where you'd be buying supplies at cost at the NSSA World, NSCA Nationals, or ATA Grand.

    I know if I could save even 25% on my reloading supplies, that would equate to easily 20% more shooting for me, which would equate to more income for the clubs I go to, and more target $ for the organization I belong to. The only real looser I see in the proposition is the reloading supply dealers.
     
  2. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    Interesting idea, I like it.

    John
     
  3. federal paper

    federal paper TS Member

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    Great idea if the world was honest as the vast majority of shooters are,but when the ata buys 10 flats of shells for trophys prizes or what have you by the time they are needed 9.5 flats are missing.
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Because no-one works for free.

    It costs money to handle volumes like you are describing and that is why the people that sell it mark up the price. The more it gets handled the higher the price.
     
  5. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I think if you were to increase membership cost to $100 a year, that would more than cover the overhead that the organization would have (say you increase membership from 30 to 100, less than 1500 people would raise over 100K). NSC and Sparta already have facilities for such an endeavor, so there shouldn't be much new construction involved.
     
  6. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Where exactly would I go to get all of these cheap components? Sparta, or with all the savings would you have distribution centers in every town so that members could pick stuff up locally? What would it cost to move 40,000 lbs of shot when 800 members living in 48 different states all wanted to buy two bags of cheap shot?

    Scott
     
  7. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    The most economical solution would be to have one central distribution point per association. This wouldn't be a piecemail operation where you go to buy 2 bags of shot, a bag of wads, a lb of powder, and a few hundred primers. This would be geared toward the guys to buy their components a year or two at a time, and are buying 20-40 bags of shot, a few cases of wads, 16-24 lbs of powder, and a few sleeves of primers.
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Do you really believe that the ATA could become a nation wide distributor of components and do it at a lower cost than the many outfits that have been surviving in the competitive arena of internet shopping?

    Even more incredulous, you expect the membership to pay 5x their existing annual dues to subsidize the cost of selling components at sub cost?

    There are no free lunches out there my friend.
     
  9. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    As volume goes up, cost comes down. If an organization buys more components than any of the current retailer, of course they are going to get a better price, which under my idea would be passed along to the members. The internet idea doesn't really fly, since only an extremely small percentage of reloading supplies are purchased online, due to weight charges on shot, and hazmat on powder and primers.

    As I said before, think of it like a sams club membership. Maybe a 2 tiered membership fee, current price for those that don't want to participate, higher price for those that do.

    I think you'd fine a lot of people out there who would pay an extra 80 bucks a year (didn't realize ATAs membership was so much cheaper than NSSA or NSCA) if it meant they could save 300-500/year on reloading supplies and ammo.
     
  10. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    BTW, anyone who thinks this isn't a good idea, or that it won't work, I challenge you to come up with something that you think is better and would either decrease costs, or increase participation.

    There aren't too many ideas floating around out there, and however difficult to implement as mine might be, it really is the only quasi-feasible solution that anyone has come up with to make competitive clay target shooting any more affordable.
     
  11. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Two thoughts ...

    1) I think the percentages of profit that you are using are way too high. I think 10% to 15% are more likely.

    2) Businesses that we keep going to for support, especially on a local basis, would be harmed economically by this endeavor.

    JMHO, but keep trying Ian. Bill Malcolm
     
  12. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    go ahead keep at it, make the game more expensive. You are going to dry up local sources and make it so that only specialty shops with the ability to buy in volume will have access to purchase shot, kinda of where we are at now.
     
  13. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Running a business is something few have done.

    Factor in employee costs, taxes, insurance, inventory costs, a place to store stuff, equipment to move it around, etc. and you will see that a 30% mark up does not go far.

    Maybe I shoot in a strange place. The biggest complainers either do not shoot more than a couple of flats a month or they NEVER do bulk buys anyway.

    It was no secret that shot was doing up. How many bought in at $29-30 a bag this fall? Every supplier I work with gave me the same story. 5 guys at the club bought 34 bags. I took 40 bags and I had 150+ bags in stock. I cannot feel sorry for someone who refuses to heed the warnings.

    So a BIG NO to a dues increase to $100 to fund an ATA business that will do little to save us money and hurts the vendors some of us depend on. I can write my own checks and make my own deals. The ATA was not giving many deals when shell purchases at the Grand were mandatory. What will change?

    Don Verna
     
  14. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Our local trap club already buys in bulk and passes the savings on to members.

    .
     
  15. krieghoffkrusher

    krieghoffkrusher TS Member

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    The most cost effective way to increase revenue from shooting is to attract new shooters. Their money is 100% incremental in comparison to the risk you would take spending money chasing your own tail trying to increase participation of existing shooters 10-15% if you’re lucky.

    So, how do you attract new shooters? I think it has little to do with the current cost of shooting.

    Every club serious about growing their membership should have a New Member Steering Committee that reaches out to new members and makes them feel welcome. Members of this committee should also be responsible for reaching out into the community to attract new members. i.e. - help organize youth shooting events or help create high school shooting teams that could use the club as their "home grounds".

    Parents need to get off their a$$ and stop letting video games and T.V baby sit their kids. Teach them the reasonability of owning a firearm. They will be proud that you entrust them with such a powerful responsibility and the discipline that comes with it will pay dividends for the rest of their life.

    Most importantly.......We all need to look ourselves in the mirror and ask how many people have we introduced to our sport whether it be a youth or an adult. If we don't introduce new people our sport will continue to die the slow death it is currently experiencing.

    No, none of this makes the sport cheaper for you in the short term....But it is how to increase participation at your local club, increase participation in the ATA and increase the amount of people shooting our sport which in turn can keep costs level rather than increasing.
     
  16. bigdave35180

    bigdave35180 TS Member

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    Personally I had rather support the ATA than Walmart....the real problem is that no one wants to do the work involved to support such an undertaking.....most people want the goods but with none of their involvement..just get out and look around your local clubs....5% of the members do 90% of the work
     
  17. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    It's just not reasonable for the ATA to do this. What would work is a bunch of guys at each club getting together to do it.

    Also, if you were to raise the annual dues to $100/year, the ATA would lose at least 2/3rds of their annual members, and wouldn't raise a single dime from those that are already life members. The net would probably be a loss for the ATA.
     
  18. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    As hammer pointed out .... many clubs will buy in volume and members get to save lots of money.

    Get busy and organize it yourself at your club!
     
  19. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    This thread comes up every few years or so. Their are companies that already provide this servise. If you think the ATA can operate cheaper your mistaken.
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Another fantasy from someone who knows little about component and shell pricing. The ATA hasn't shown itself capable of managing a kissing booth at the county fair!!
     
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