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A little history lesson.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by halfmile, Feb 19, 2011.

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  1. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    You paste it in the little box that says "website URL".

    HM
     
  2. porky

    porky TS Member

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  3. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    "msnbc"?

    Is this even worth opening?

    If want a Modern History lesson, open my link.
     
  4. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Good morning dud256:

    I opened your link today wondering what MSNBC/MSN might have worth watching. When I saw it was Maddow, I was sure the answer was "nothing". However, I watched a bit thinking a guest might share something of value.

    About a 1:15 in, Maddow explained how Unemployment Insurance (UI) originated in Wisc. A system where when "YOU" are working, "YOU" pay an insurance premium so when YOU get laid off... That was enough. Here's why.

    Wisc started UI - in 1932. It was effectively co-oped by the feds in 1935 via the Social Security Act. (Yea, that Social Security Act).

    It IS insurance. In some cases paid directly to the individual state. In other cases it's a run of the mill insurance policy where premiums are based on a company's history of claims. The key phrase is "company's history".

    The reality is that no EMPLOEE ever paid a nickel into the Unemployment Insurance program. It is 100% funded by employer contributions. The payouts (eligibility criteria, weekly amount, etc.) are defined by the government and administered by U.S. Dept of Labor.

    Like other government programs, including it's Social Security parent, UI was probably created with good intentions. However, like most government programs, including it's Social Security parent, the lib dems have routinely raided the piggy bank to purchase votes.

    Vote for me and I'll loosen eligibility criteria. Vote for me and I'll increase your weekly benefits. Vote for me and I'll extend the number of weeks you can collect. Get the picture??

    Like all socialist arrangements, it's great until you run out of other people's money.

    The bottom line? It matters not to me whether Maddow lies intentionally or is simply ignorant. Either way, she routinely spews false statements. Why would anyone watch 14 plus minutes of her crap??

    sissy
     
  5. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    <object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc6f975c" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=10,0,0,0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" /><param name="FlashVars" value="launch=41674668&width=420&height=245" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed name="msnbc6f975c" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" width="420" height="245" FlashVars="launch=41674668&width=420&height=245" allowscriptaccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 420px;">Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">world news</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">news about the economy</a></p>
     
  6. dalog

    dalog Member

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    Recoil Sissy states "The reality is that no EMPLOEE ever paid a nickel into the Unemployment Insurance program. It is 100% funded by employer contributions. The payouts (eligibility criteria, weekly amount, etc.) are defined by the government and administered by U.S. Dept of Labor."

    Hmmmm . . . well in my business my employees are paid as much as I can afford (you have to have good people) AFTER the government gets through taking all they can!

    The story states that originally Unemployment Insurance was purchased by the employee from their own funds for their own benefit, I say it still is, only the employer has been forced to pay it for them for so long people no longer realize it. Same is true for health insurance, even Social Security. Of course people know that a portion of their check is deducted for that but the employer kicks in too, and this is also money that is no longer available to compensate them directly.

    When we open a position we also post not only the hourly rate but a "Total Compensation" that breaks out all of the additional "benefits" the company pays on behalf of the employee. In most cases this can add an additional 50%+ to the hourly wage.

    Apparently there are very few left that truly understand Capitalism in it's true form, no wonder we have elected a Socialist President. People keep voting for those that promise more Freebies when in fact, they are paying for all of it themselves! God help us.
     
  7. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    dalog:

    You state, "Of course people know that a portion of their check is deducted for that (UI) but the employer kicks in too". I respectfully submit well informed employees "know" no such thing.

    The fed, states, and in some cases, local governments tap worker paychecks to fund a variety of government programs. Social Security is an obvious example. Employees pay half of the SS tab with employers matching it. That is unless one is self employed and must pay BOTH ends.

    Employers KNOW what taxes are deducted from paychecks because the units of government imposing those taxes require the employer to process and remit those deductions. UI isn't one of the employee deductions. So... the fact remains for UI, employers don't kick in "too", they pay it all.

    I would certainly agree that productive employees contribute to the success of the companies for which they work. The more productive they are, the more they are worth. It's isn't something given, it's something earned.

    It's also true that quality employees are recruited and retained with a combination of payroll (cash) and benefits. However, knowledgeable capitalists understand employer paid benefits are an example of unintended consequences resulting from government taxation.

    Why? Because payroll (cash) is taxed. Non-cash benefits including health insurance generally are not taxed. Smart employers and employees understand that workers are net ahead with compensation packages consisting of more benefits and less direct cash. However, unlike payroll taxes, health insurance is not a government requirement. At least it wasn't prior to Obumblecare.

    In conclusion, I stand by my original statement with one amendment. Without research, I can only say with certainty that employees haven't paid a nickel in UI taxes since the early 70's. Someone else will have to do that research. I'm headed for the gun club.

    sissy
     
  8. dalog

    dalog Member

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    Sissy,

    You misquoted me, you omitted a significant segment and then YOU added the "(UI)" to my statement. Please reread it in its entirety.

    "Same is true for health insurance, even Social Security. Of course people know that a portion of their check is deducted for that but the employer kicks in too, and this is also money that is no longer available to compensate them directly."

    I stand by my unaltered statement.

    My point is simple, from a business standpoint, EVERYTHING you spend to have an employee on payroll becomes cost of labor, even the unemployment insurance<b/>. The more government gets involved by mandating more expenses, the less the employee gets to keep as take-home. OR, the business just does not hire additional people. That is the situation today with the uncertainty created by the runaway spending in Washington, much of which looks like it will end up as an some form of “additional deduction” to paychecks with a good deal being pushed down to state and local entities through unfunded mandates.

    I will grant that IF it was not mandated there is no guaranty that the employee will receive it as paid compensation BUT as long as it is mandated, they NEVER will.

    I will add that I may be a bit too optimistic in that as time has passed many younger workers may well not know their history. As a result, they may not "know" that at one time not that long ago your "take-home" was a much larger percentage of your actual compensation (cost of labor). I believe your disagreement on the point of Unemployment Insurance illustrates that.
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, my paycheck stubs show unemployment insurance on them. But it's not listed under deductibles.
     
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