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96,97 Punches Optional

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Paul in Mn, Nov 23, 2010.

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  1. Paul in Mn

    Paul in Mn Member

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    I have always felt the 96 and 97 yard punches were wrong unless they won. Those punches should be optional, just like a reduction. If your goal is to get to the 27, take the punch. If you prefer to be competitive, refuse it.


    A calm day will have 99's and 98's in caps. A 96 is so far away from winning its in a different zip code, but still gets 1/2 yd. That's just not right.
     
  2. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    If you think 3 birds is another zip code then you need another mail man. 96/97 placed in Grand American last year but you don't think they deserve a punch. How about if we just let you stand on the 20 for the rest of your life??? How about if we continue to punch a 88 that wins a smaller shoot on a given day but give you a free ride for your 96???

    It's as fair as it can be, accept it and enjoy the sport.

    Don
     
  3. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Well stated Don.
     
  4. Paul in Mn

    Paul in Mn Member

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    Sorry Don, I should have said win or place.
     
  5. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    I agree with Paul on the 96. Shouldn't be an automatic punch. Only if the score falls within the earned yardage for scores. I also think there should be a point when nobody earns yardage. No one should be punched for an 88.

    That being said, I'll shoot with whatever rules are in place. Makes no difference to me. I've been to the 27, but am stuck in the 25 - 26 rut because I just don't shoot enough anymore to become proficient enough to shoot a punchable score.
     
  6. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    It doesnt matter what game your involved in, someone always wants to change the rules to their advantage or just gripe about something. When you go into a game you know the rules, accept them as they are or don't play.

    I've had a couple of punches with a 89 score but then again the winds were up in the 30 mph plus range. I looked at it as a reward for shooting the best handicap score of the day.

    Bill
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    BIGDON is in that other zip code, it's called Dementia.

    With todays scores and 2 hole targets and 1250fps shells it's in the FREE ZONE.


    There are only a few shooters that can attain top scores all the time with 3 hole targets and 1200fps shells GET REAL.

    The early grand slams in the early years before the 1250fps shells and 3 hole targets really earned their GRAND SLAMS the hard way.

    One way to tell is look at their starting registered shooting years, most are shooters from the mid 80s to present and are the chronic bitchers. You can find this out on the ATA shooter information center.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  8. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Leave 96/97 punches alone, it works.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  9. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    Boy I sure did not here Big Don bitching about rules or 2 hole or 3 hole targets. He also did not get off on a rant about the mid 80's. Gary maybe you should reread the first 2 posts and make a response that makes sense. Bill
     
  10. happytrapper

    happytrapper TS Member

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    Don't you know that the 27 yd shooters want to you to get all the punches you can get so the short yardage shooters don't come in and take all the money?

    I don't think 96 or 97 should get punched unless they got a winning score. Everybody complaining about the Hdcp system so why don't they make it easier for the average shooters? When the average shooter get good enough to be competitive enough he will be back there with the 27 yd. shooters. Not by getting 1/2 yd punches because he has a good day and not winning anything.
     
  11. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    tom berry:

    Sometimes a punch for a score in the 80's can be a positive thing. For example, I once got a 1/2 yard punch (good for one step back) for an 89 the week before my state shoot. Several of my so called friends found it VERY entertaining.

    It's one thing when a scoundrel shoots a Mickey Mouse score and gets a punch that doesn't matter. However, I really find it disturbing when a newbie or otherwise aspiring shooter gets stuck with a "junk" punch. Junk punches only serve to move shooters from distances they can't handle to LONGER distances they can't handle.

    sissy
     
  12. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    I agree with Paul.



    During the two weeks of 2009 Grand there was a total of 854 punches given for scores of 96 and 97 few of which would have won anything if it weren’t for yardage and category trophies.


    The automatic punch provision of the earned yardage table is outdated and scores of 96 and 97 should be eliminated.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Longsh/t your post is a good example of Dementia. I am sure we will hear some more of your wise wisdom before this is over. Because according to you - you know everything about everything. Change your pillow position and go back to sleep.

    As Bill said you know the rules, so either play the game or go home. I'm sure some of you pouters will say that you will stay home, your problem not ours, don't suck your thumb as it's embarassing for us all.

    Don
     
  14. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Happytrapper posted a comment that is essentially the same argument that many have been making about changing the handicap system . . .

    "Everybody complaining about the Hdcp system so why don't they make it easier for the average shooters?"

    I've never understood why anyone would think it's fair to make it easier for the average shooters. If you are average and think you should be rewarded for it, go get a government job. Competitions, trapshooting or otherwise, are not about rewarding "average".

    Scott
     
  15. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    How come the number of shooters does not enter the formula, there is a big difference if you shoot against 100+ and say 15 at a small shoot.. The Grand, Zone and State (and yes Cardinal Center & Silver Dollar), and like type shoots I can see getting the card punched. But at smaller shoots, with less than X number of shoots, NO….GRUBBY..
     
  16. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    OH Scott,

    Now you are going to piss off all the wannabes.

    Don Verna
     
  17. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    It was never meant to be fair. It won't ever be fair. Someone with more talent and means always has a better chance at winning than those with less talent and limited means, it is the way of all competition. It is simply a fact. One of the drving forces is hope, you can always hope for your golden day in a big event, and if you shoot enough events you'll eventually get your day.
    at the Grand, personally, I'd like to see each yard shoot for own its own monies. It would make for a more spread out dispersion of monies, more trophies, more shoot-off experiences, more memories.
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    My opinion. The punch system we haven't changed in eons worked better for the tougher settings of old. When we incorporated the easier format via the 34 degree angles and shorter thrown targets, no consideration was given that attaining the max yardage would be easier. The max yardage group has grown at a much faster rate than prior more difficult years.

    Why not discuss other ideas of promoting and growing our sport rather than the, "let's leave things alone" mentality? It's too damned bad that wasn't the mind set during the CHEATING era years also!! Would these ideas even be mentioned today if we'd had leadership with gonads at that time in our sports history? I seriously doubt we would! Historically speaking, till the Einstein era of 95-96, all official changes in our sport made the target presentations tougher, not easier? Is it working out as well as originally thought? I think not once we see the brilliance of that change and not swallowing all the smooth BS that came along with it!

    Hap
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Scott not that I disagree with what you are saying(because I don't disagree)what I do find interesting is you don't want to reward the average shooter but you think nothing of punishing the short yardage shooter for score that aren't shot in ATA competition.

    When the Big Dog shoot big scores at 27 it is allowed to continue year in and year out. Yet poor Mr. 20yd shoots a couple of good scores in a shoot that aren't ATA sanctioned. He get yardage for it and Mr. Bib Dog gets nothing for the same score no matter where he shoots it ATA or non-ATA. So tell us how do you/we decide who to reward and who to punish??????

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    The whole system needs a rework. We have a sport dominated by the (pros) that aren't acknowledged by the governing body. None of them want a change, which is sad because if it was done correctly a restructuring of the handicap system could enhcane the participation of the sport. Most people are handicapped to their point of inadequatecy. Do I have any answers on how to change it? Nope.
    I do know that it could be changed if the majority of membership demanded it.
     
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97 trap shooting average

,

ata shooting a 96 is this competitive enough