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8 cops fire 73 shots at 1 perp = 1 dead bystander

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Sep 9, 2011.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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  2. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    And we are suppose to expect them to protect us?????????????? YEAH RIGHT. And they wonder why WE carry guns.
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    They receive training once a year for a few hours. Do you think that's enough? HMB
     
  4. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Until you been there...
     
  5. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Is that a bad average(tongue in cheek)??

    Sounds like alot of spray'n and pray'n to me.


    Sad day for the innocent bystander and family.

    May be time for some updating on their officers qualification standards. Maybe some combat training classes.
     
  6. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    If you've known many LEOs, then you know that most are not shooting enthusiast or gun experts. I've got a couple cop buddies, and I've known quite a few others from gyms where I've worked out, and most shoot two or three times per year. My sons put more rounds down range when they were 6 years old.

    -Gary
     
  7. Russ-in-Pa

    Russ-in-Pa Well-Known Member

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    A real gunfight is different from standing at the well lit indoor range and taking slow aimed shots at a stationary target that is not firing back.

    This happened in a different world than the one recreational shooters live in.
     
  8. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    Based on past statistics, the number of hits on the suspect is below "average", but the number of rounds fired, based on how many officers were present is also low.
    Even a mediocre shooter can fire 4-5 rounds per second and there were "two distinct volleys". It wouldn't be a stretch to figure the 4-5 rounds per second based on 8 officers to come to the 70 round mark.
    Just because you shoot doesn't mean anything is going to happen with the suspect and since they only hit twice, it's reasonable to think that the suspect was still in a position to continue to be a threat (even the news reported he fired at the officers). No hits, no reaction from the bad guy, the cops keep shooting because the threat is still there.
     
  9. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    In many cases it's not really their fault if they only rely on yearly training requirements. I had a contract to train several LEO organizations a few years ago, and many of the officers were barely qualified to carry a firearm. Now the ones that took their job more seriously, well, they training and burned powder on their own or with independent trainers like me and where miles ahead of their contemporaries...

    You can train them all you want, but when the elephant is seen, things happen. Combat, and in some cases that's what happens out there, is a disorganized mess at the person to person level; until the smoke clears, most have no idea of what took place in the firefight...

    Now if all the facts in this incident are in fact true, then this was a pathetic example of applied force by some or all these men. Follow this case to it's conclusion and the closest thing to the truth will surface, even if you have to read between the lines at times...

    The collateral damage of killing a bystander is unacceptable...period. But then again, the smoke has yet to be cleared, and we'll learn what happened in time. Regardless, a major rule of engagement wasn't followed by one or several officers -- know what lays beyond your target. If the background wasn't clear, the firearm should never have been fired...that's it from a former tactical instructor. I usually don't respond to these type of threads, but after reading some of the comments, I had to pipe in.....cya
     
  10. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like she was killed by a ricocheted bullet. None the less poor shooting by LEO's. Generally the first thing cut under budget woe's "Firearm training" The excuses I've heard more then once, "the cost of ammo"!!

    Its gotten worse with the "now" practice of hiring ex-military over citizens for LEO's. The excuse, "we don't need to train them, the military has already done that for us" !!

    YES they are trained, but not for a civilian position. If anything they need to be "Un-trained"!
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't NYPD issue FMJ bullets, which have a propensity for richochets?
     
  12. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    "Meanwhile, New York City Mayor and leftist shill Michael Bloomberg is not nearly as concerned with government's distribution of illegal guns and grenades onto American and Mexican streets as he is with the lawful possession of firearms within his city limits. Specifically, in the wake of Labor Day weekend violence in the city that resulted in 10 deaths, Bloomberg has asked "both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, both sides of the aisle," to step up to the plate and enact stringent gun control legislation, because "there are just too many guns on the streets and we have to do something about it." Never mind that NYC already has some of the toughest local anti-gun legislation on the books.

    According to Mayor Bloomberg, the important thing to remember is that New York's violence is due only to the existence of guns. Responsibility does not attach to the shooters, the ATF, the DOJ or all the other bad actors who do the actual killing, maiming or enabling of the violence. From Bloomberg's viewpoint, inanimate weapons themselves should be held accountable for the crimes in which they are used. In truth, tighter gun control legislation only makes things easier for arms-possessing criminals, not their defenseless victims. In fact, were it not for violent gangs and recidivist offenders upon whom the courts lavish so much compassion, the United States would have a relatively low violent crime rate. In the meantime, small-brained pollyannacrats continue the effort to disarm gun owners through unconstitutional local ordinances and codes."
     
  13. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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    Bloomburg is an idiot.
     
  14. Libra1310

    Libra1310 TS Member

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    I live on Long Island , and have many a friend who are NYPD officers. The truth of the matter is, they lowered the standard for hiring years ago so as not to offend minority groups. I worked security in many nightclubs and bars over the years, and have thrown out few NYPD guys for other than correct behavior.
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"Bloomburg is an idiot."</i>

    Bloomingidiot
     
  16. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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    Still LMAO
     
  17. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    When I was in the navy reserve, I belonged to a unit which was composed of mostly NYC cops & fireman. A police sgt went to the range for his annual quals. They must leave the range with their at the time revolver unloaded. Four months later he responded to an armed robbery in progress with an empty revolver,

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  18. colonel klink

    colonel klink Active Member

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    I am a retired LEO. I have always had a love of the firearm. I was the dept. range instructor for years & etc. That being said, most police officers are not gun savy. Actually, most should carry a banana in their holster so as to not hurt anyone. Getting them to the range to qualify is like pulling teeth.
    The one thing that could save their lives & they do not want to do it. Most are just looking for a job, that's it. The horror stories I could tell would take hours-- it is scary. Colonel
     
  19. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    So are the people who voted for him.
     
  20. copper

    copper Member

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    Same amount of good bad skilled not skilled in every job most NYPD same. People watch these Cop shows and think different Now TV show reality or not not real deal .I worked last couple years with a few NYPD cops retired moved to PA and they said most never had to pull there gun. TV has made people think and exspect differen,t its not so. Is tough pain in ASS job drunks, drugs, domestic people at there worst. And I worked as a private cop in gated community Pocono,s PA gangs shots fire first week I was more afraid of getting sued than shot police reports are a pain Not TV
    . So yes not every cop is dirty Harry. PS remember that FBI shoot out same kind of deal. these are just people doing a job Not gun slingers
     
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